Joe Kinnear is turning his attention to the January transfer window, and he knows he must sell before he can buy, in his effort to improve the quality of the squad.
Alan Smith – likely to move on in January?
Joe talked to the Newcastle Journal after the game on Saturday:
“I spoke to Dennis last week,” “I’m only really getting on board with Dennis now because the (transfer) window’s coming. When I first took the job I didn’t think I’d be here this long so I didn’t really get down to talking about finances and players.”
“Now it seems the club won’t be sold, certainly until after Christmas. I’ve got my eye on two or three players we need and two or three to sell. Dennis is now given the task to go and get them, simple as that – and the task of removing some of the players I feel are not good enough.”
During his meeting with Ashley, Kinnear asked for some financial backing in January:
“The answer, truthfully, was keep the money you get for the players you sell and invest it back in the team,” “If there’s someone I desperately want he’ll possibly put his hand in his pocket providing he’s not near to selling the club.”
Of course this doesn’t help with the size of our squad, if Joe has to sell players first, unless he can bring more players in for the money than those he lets go of course. Joe was then asked who may be sold:
“Not players here (at Stamford Bridge) today, fringe players who won’t be involved, in my opinion, in the first team but we’ve spent a few quid on. If we can get some of that back and replace them with quality players, the squad will be better.”
Those not at Stamford Bridge include Smith, Geremi, Xisco and Mark Viduka. The latter is in the final season of his contract, making recouping money on him difficult – but he is one of Newcastle’s highest earners at over £60K/week.
It would also appear that he’s not looking to move Joe Enrique or even Steve Harper out, with both being in the squad on Saturday, and of course Jose played at Chelsea in Saturday’s excellent team display.
Other players who could be moved out to lessen the wage bill include 20 year-old David Edgar, who has hardly played under Kinnear this season.
We paid big money for Smith and Xisco, and it will be interesting to see if we can recuperate anywhere near the £12M the club paid out for their services.
In any case with Joe now very likely to be in charge through January, it promises to be an exciting time for Newcastle supporters in the upcoming transfer window, as Joe does his unenviable job of getting Newcastle strengthened and back up that league table.
He hasn’t done too bad at all up to this point, and we feel quite positive that the Irishman can improve the squad in January. Maybe a little bit of good news is on the horizon, we certainly could use some. 😀
Comments welcome.
91 comments so far
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Comment #41If we sell 3 players and sign 5 better players then the money will not be relevant. However, i doubt this will be the case.
simon376
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Comment #42Spyro, I agree with you. If you own a football club, you have to be ready to spend some money. What is the old saying, speculate to accumulate. If he spent some money to improve the squad and it doesn’t have to be loads, just enough to get 4 – 5 more players in, the club could improve and so would his profit.
As for Xisco, I dont rate him either, but I agree that what he has played isn’t enough to say get rid, need a good 10 games or so. On the other hand, JK isn’t even putting him on the bench. Football managers know so much more than us or at least they should do. If the manager doesn’t rate him, nuff said.
bowburnmag
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Comment #43Stardust – he did it through Keegan’s first lot of interviews and initially through Mort. He then realised the enormity of the task and back-tracked. I’m talking about well before the ‘WOW’ signings. Of course some people are unrealistic regards spending money on that scale and in that domain because they don’t understand it. But when they’re told by KK and Mort that money will be spent and we’ll have fun, they believe it. It’s as simple as that. Everyone loved the idea of a long-term approach as well but most of us also saw the reality of the here (or then) and now as well, which needed to be addressed and we were led to believe it could be, to a degree. Of course there has been a lot of water under the bridge since then but keeping promises is more important than making them. I give him his due though, he’s stopped making promises at least. It’s all gone a bit vague.
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Comment #44He is injured Simon
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Comment #45Spyro
My point being that if we sold Cacapa, Edgar, Smith, Carroll offloaded Viduka – and signed 5 replacements (whether bought loaned or otherwise) and those 5 brought in had realistic chances of playing we would be far better off.
I really cant see what your point is?
As for the money near the end of the transfer windows – i wont comment – I dont know the financials – neither do you. Nor do we know exactly what was said in JK and MA’s meeting. JK alluded tot he fact money may be made available – it simply keeps prices quoted reasonable – but we are onto speculation again.
simon376
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Comment #46Stardust, What I want to know is, how much better off are we now than before? How much debt has been paid off, some qoutes from Ashley say all and others from him and Harris say that the debt has been eased but not totally paid off. So how much better off are we, how much has Ashley improved things. The fans have every right to know as we invest so much into the club via ticket sales etc. I’m a season ticket holder and have signed up for the next 2 seasons, so I want to know how the club stands. If Ashley doesn’t invest and we go down, it could be a case of pre 1986 Boro.
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Comment #47“My point being that if we sold Cacapa, Edgar, Smith, Carroll offloaded Viduka – and signed 5 replacements (whether bought loaned or otherwise) and those 5 brought in had realistic chances of playing we would be far better off.”
Yes we would be better off, but that is extremely unlikely as we would probably fetch pennies for those sales.
simon376
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Comment #48Even when he was fit, he wasn’t getting a game. Have to see what happens when he is fit again, but I can’t see him getting in unles we lose someone
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Comment #49Yes Spyro
So if you cant argue with the rationalle behind the thought process then really you have no point to make – on this occassion fella I think your way off the mark.
bowburnmag
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Comment #50I’ve written kids off before prematurely and they’ve proved me wrong so I’ll give Xisco the benefit of the doubt but I’m not encouraged by what I’ve seen so far. I dislike assertion but I would go on a record as saying we will get next to nowt for the lads we want to offload in January. We will make £4m at most unless some of our big players go and even then it will be ‘30%’ off time.
bowburnmag
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Comment #51The difficulty with any rationale is trying to implement it Stardust. Sometimes it’s not the right approach for the circumstances. Who could argue with the scenario of replacing 3 players out for 5 players in and being no worse off financially? Spyro isn’t mad enough to suggest that’s not a good idea though he might turn loopy having seen the light of the mob. He’s saying it’s probably unlikely to happen.
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Comment #52Stardust
My point is that whilst that sounds good in theory, it is not likely and in truth the more money we have available, the more options we have when trying to secure the services of good quality players. Especially in January when nobody wants to lose their good players. How many Gutierrez style signings can we pull off?
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Comment #53Exactly Bowburn
graeme
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Comment #54Ed, I’m shocked by your headline – “Geremi, Smith & Xisco look Vulnerable”
How could we possibly sell them –
Geremi is the most consistant crosser of the ball we have, I mean, he hits the first defender every time he gets near a dead ball;
Smith – the greatest non contributer in NUFC history and the best Assistant Corner Flag Attendant we have ever had;
Xisco – hasnt even done enough to justify washing his shirt for the first time!!
Add to that list the Venerable Mark “who ate the pies” Viduka who spends more time injured than EMO and that takes some doing.
These so called players should have been sold in the summer and Xisco is wasting his time being here. There are probably another 3 or 4 that could be added to the list to raise funds for JFK.
My main question would be – Where’s the £11 million we got for Milner on the last day of the last window?? Surely that should be given to JFK as his starting float!!!!!
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Comment #55Simon 376 – Harris clarified that all debts were cleared – quote “Like for example there is no debt at this club. Mike Ashley paid off the debt, it is things like that we have been doing to give people the real picture of the club, its prospects.
”
I recall there were a few million still to be paid on debts not yet due – such as timing payments for players.
Again – I state – you have no need to know how much money has been paid out – you only need to see improvements on the pitch, off the pitch, in the infrastructure etc etc – the financials should not concern you – unless we we debt ridden. Youre only concern should be for the team – I agree we need more quality but if it comes free or low cost I say all the better for the long term future of the club – Im not sure how you can disagree.
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Comment #56the biggest problem is in jan we only have a month to do business,if no one is interested in our players we,re knackered basically.
it took nearly a month to sign one player in collo,it doesn,t bode well.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Comment #57Spyro – Bowburnmag
I keep saying it – it just doesnt matter – as long as you start with the strong rationalle and then work around circumstance – its the only way to go. You simply cant for go good thought process on the basis it might not happen.
Jim Collins in “Good to Great” and “Built to Last” talks at length about the enduring principles of all the worlds best organisations with real examples..MA’s vision is no different from the best. (PR aside lol)
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Comment #58Stardust
You are not being realistic. You cannot always get quality at a cheap price. If this was possible, teams like Manchester United etc wouldn’t spend money would they? It is all well and good saying “concentrate on the squad, not the finances”, but fans have a right to ask why we need to lose players to get new ones when there should be money available regardless of sales. Not every fan wants to see players sold in January. Some fans want to see quality ADDED to the squad.
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Comment #59the sad fact is football now is a billionaires playground,you have to spend money to stay competitive or you fall by the wayside.
the players themselves are multimillionaires so this equals billionaires paying their wages.
i wish it wasn,t the case football needs to get back to basics before it implodes on itself.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Comment #60I agree not always Spyro but it should never stop you trying.
And as fans the ONLY responsibility is towards the team.
I too want to see more depth and quality but what is the point of hanging onto the “numbers” Id rather the same size squad but ensuring the players in are far better than the players out.
Players out for example reduces wages and may allow quality to come in on loan as one example, prove themselves and then sign them – although that is just one part of a complex web.
This phillosophy has made our team stronger this year than last – look at how the new signings are instead of our old under the old systems.
I just dont understand the hysteria against the fundamentally sound logic.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Comment #61The Beat
But its no good crying like a baby that we havent got a multi Billionaire owning us – even the richest are losing huge sums in todays markets.
We simply have to acknowledge the reality of where we are and deal with it – and unfortunately for you and fortunately for me – that means Ashleys long term strategy.
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Comment #62what is ashley,s long term strategy?i haven,t got a clue to be honest.
nobody at the club tells us anything anyway,so nobodys clear on whats happening.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Comment #63Slowly improving overtime whilst being financially prudent.
Improve the infrastructure and investment in youth.
So blindingly simple and obvious. But its easier to cry like a baby that “we want a billionaire” no wonder we are a laughing stock
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Comment #64i,m not crying stardust just stating a fact thats the way football is going.
imo we,ll be plying our football in the fizzy pop if we carry on with this decline.
what good are those young players in the second tier,because we are in a dogfight this season.
i also disagree with you on that fact the team is stronger than last season.
bowburnmag
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Comment #65Stardust – You know that I am not, like many on here, a ‘bedsheet brigade’ protagonist. The phrase “cutting your nose off to spite your face” springs to mind. But no matter what your mentality or stance or understanding we all hear what you’re saying. For some reason, it honestly seems you’re just trying to win this argument for the sake of it, rather than believing you’re right or wrong. You’re not listening to people. We’re agreeing with you about the underpinning principles of long-term and not overspending. However, what we’re saying is that we were and still are in very real danger of letting slip the one thing which has ensured we are not financially ruined. Though I accept that’s a slight paradox, as we probably wouldn’t have spent as much had we been Championship fodder all this time. But there again we wouldn’t be making as much, all things relative etc. We need to protect our interests short-term and continue to provide entertainment while striving for mid to long term stability and hopefully success. It’s a big ask but I think Ashley has and still is making fundamental errors by not spending above and beyond break-even. He underestimated this task is my opinion and it’s been painful to endure.
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Comment #66bowburnmag
how i feel exactly.
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Comment #67every club will try to sign good young prospects,i tend to think they will go to the top four before they come to newcastle.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Comment #68Bowburnmag – I cant disagree with the majority of youre entry – far from it.
My point is – as you put it the other day – we have to accept our reality of now – and that means Ashley in charge – and support the club and team.
If he hasnt got the cash to invest then we are still in a better situation that before.
Spyro my point being that this Anti Ashley rant isnt realistic. You have to deal with reality – I would love him to have 100m to invest but it isnt happening as he cant afford it – regardless of his initial thoughts which again is speculation.
I have never changed my opinion from Day 1 about all of this – I see this so simply.
Until the day we all row together in the same direction behind the team – and yes that Means the fans behind the team and club management – we will never escape our perpetual demise.
And Bowburnmag if that means banging on and getting people to listen – well thats my responsibility to the club fulfilled – to support the club not to undermine.
cause I got the girth
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Comment #69Don’t know really why there is so much crap being wrote about these comment, along the lines of Ashley demanding sales before buying, he never said that! Look at the quote:
“keep the money you get for the players you sell and invest it back in the team”
So he is saying get rid of some of the fringe players who are dump, and use that money to buy better quality players! Now, forgive me if im blind, but I don’t understand where the bad side of that comment is!!! As well as that, it will be the same for every team, even the ones who can just go around spunking money everywhere on new players, they all want the fringe players out and better ones brought in! Secondly:
“If there’s someone I desperately want he’ll possibly put his hand in his pocket”
Well that speaks for its self, if joe and wise like someone, they will have to convince Ashley to fork the cash. Like most teams apart from the aforementioned spunking for fun ones.
Ask yourself, would we really be arsed if any of the fringe players mentioned left? Furthermore, when they leave that they are replaced with a better calibre of player? Seriously people, where is the drama?
Phil,Gosforth
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Comment #70Stardust – lol.
“Yet despite the improvements you criticise him for having the club on a strong financial footing – you seem to forget with our previous footing – we probably wouldnt have a club now as we could have been forclosed in the crunch.”
Ashley did NOT save NUFC for god’s sake.We were making PROFIT when he bought the place(latest Deloitte figures),the other debt was the mortgage for the ground.He paid that off coz he knew it would instantly add on to the value of the club and he wouldn’t be forking out interest on it.We were already handling that debt and making a profit.We were already much more active in the transfer market.I don’t care about cost it’s about numbers and quality.A thin squad that’s taken over by a very,very rich man (or anyone who takes control of a club for that matter ) shouldn’t still be thin 18 months later ffs.
Where is the strong financial footing?You do understand that finance means money?Where is it?.Where is the Milner cash?Where is the Sky money?Where is the league prize money?Where is the £20m a season out of his own pocket?Has that £20m ever been seen?No.
Where is the 3 season in advance ticket sales money?Grosvenor Casino would be a safe bet.
ANY fan would think he would spend money on transfers if he’s a fkin billionaire surely?I bet you did?
Simple fact is -MA has hardly spent any money on transfers.He has hardly improved the squad.He has alienated the fans and proved his greed time and time again.£480m anyone?
If he wasn’t such a greedy to**er he would have sold the club by now.He has made NUFC a world wide laughing stock and severley pi**ed off the majority of it’s paying customers.He has done nothing but DAMAGE to our club and it’s image.NOTHING is better under MA.If you can’t see what’s in front of your face then you should have gone to Specsavers.
Prudent – there is nothing prudent about not investing in the first team squad and sucking up all the cash that comes into the club.It’s idiotic.The first team is your main money maker.
Investing in the future,while obviously correct, is just another way to try to save money.
Everything about MA is about saving money.
So..don’t expect anything except reducing the wage bill further (Owen :S) if fatty is still owner come Jan.It would be a bit late for him to realise you have to speculate to accumulate,the stupid tw*t.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Comment #71cause I got the girth – just how I see it
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Comment #72why doesn,t ashley chase up the transfer money that is owed and make that availible also.
Spyro
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Comment #73My rant earlier came from anger at the thought of losing some of our best players if i am honest. However, i am sick of hearing excuses in the transfer windows about why we cant spend this and that.
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Comment #74does anybody know the exact outlay ashley has gave for transfers since he took over?
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Comment #75we might as well change our name to SPORTS DIRECT UNITED. the club is being run like one of his stores,we,ve even got the silly sign above the gallowgate.
Shearerbliss
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Comment #76Acually phil, when he came in we still owed money for transfers done years before he came, eg Luque, Martins etc. So it is not as cut and dry as you put it. The investment in the youth, Big Sam’s staff, Big Sams sacking, making debt manageable, signings this year, and day to day running of the club guess what cost MONEY! So to say what money he has put in is childish! Sky money is paid over time not put straight in our hands, We had the 5th highest wage bill which would only take a month to wipe off the 12mill from milner.
Football is a very expensive sport to own! When he bought it being a billionaire was ok, within a few months man u, tott, liverpool spent a total of £125mil onn transfers unreal! Therefore now you need to be a multi billionaire. With a billion set aside JUST FOR FOOTBALL! Unreal!
Knowing americans they will come to the PL and find out the money is not like in the US where commerical sponsership is big money! They will have to het use to 45mins of straight football without the ad breaks!
Guinea Mag
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Comment #77Any players who’s contract expires next summer either need to have contracts extended or sold in January. This impacts; Cacapa, Owen, Harper, Ameobi, Butt, Viduka, Edgar, etc.
I would keep Xisco and Enrique as they are young enough to come good……
The squad is too small so we need replacements for whomever we sell!!!!
THE BEAT.
Nov 24, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Comment #78ashley has said he will put his hand in his pocket,if joe is having trouble selling players if there is a player he needs.
he has said he will foot the bill if he still does not have a buyer.
Stardust
Nov 24, 2008 at 2:09 PM
Comment #79Phil – Gosforth
For a man with such big opinions you have so little insight.
Just to add further from Shearbliss – at the same time FFS, Douglas Hall etc were paying dividends to themselves as shareholders.
You can not pay dividends when losing money with a PLC its against the law.
Financial reporting is one thing, the reality of a situation another – see nufc-finances.org.uk for an explanation of the corruption and some would say theft – to the tune of almost 100million pounds.
So a man comes in straightens it out and look at your disgusting reaction. Dispicible.
I am incredulous at you and your type.
The Entertainers
Nov 24, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Comment #80I cant believe some of the names people are banding around.
Our squad is painfully thin already and people are wanting whole sale changes in Jan’!
Geremi is not a first team player, but can still do a job, fans often forget the amount of assists this fellow puts in. Yes his legs have gone, but hes still valuable, until the summer at least.
Smith, this ones going to come back and bite us, if we sell him. The lads has ability, he just hasnt shown it whilst hes been at the club. Thats a club thats been in a right state since he arrived too.
Xisco, i just dont know. He shouldnt have been bought in the first place. But now we have him, do we give him the benefit of a full season?
For me the only ones i would let go are Carroll, Edgar and Zog if hes desperate to go!