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Pardew To Make Lots Of Changes For Carling Cup Tie

3:42 pm, Monday, September 19th, 2011 by Dr. Ed Harrison · 172 Comments

Alan Pardew will do more than a bit of tinkering with the Newcastle squad for tomorrow night’s game at Nottingham Forest, and it looks like he will make  lots of changes.

Good shot of Demba Ba in Newcastle training gear – love that blue 

Pardew will have to balance giving some good fringe players a game,  while also ensuring the team is strong enough to make it through to the 4th round of the Carling Cup.

One player very likely to start is French star Ben Arfa, fit again after damaging his ankle ligaments in July in Kansas City on Newcastle’s American tour.

And let’s say it right now, the last thing we want to see ever again is Ben Arfa carried off on a stretcher, it’s too hard to take, and surely he’s now had his fair share of bad luck on Tyneside?

It could also be that James Perch gets a game tomorrow night, and others who may also feature include Peter Lovenkrands, Sylvain Marveaux, Danny Guthrie, Dan Gosling and Shane Ferguson.

Pardew told the local Newcastle press this today he will make a lot of changes:

“There will be a lot of changes. The squad is so tight, there is such a good spirit.” “Actually we could even put in a better performance with those who want to come in and have a go.”

“People like Sylvain and Hatem Ben Arfa have got to play.” “I am looking forward to tomorrow to see some of my other players.”

“We could have had all three on Saturday, but we don’t want to get greedy.” “One point and a fantastic performance is something I will take all day long at Aston Villa.

“We were outstanding in periods of that game. Cheick Tiote and Yohan Cabaye in the central area, aided by Demba Ba I might add, were outstanding.”

It’s good that Pardew gives Demba Ba some credit for Saturday, because after Monday night, when Cabaye and Tiote were overrun, Ba helped out and it made a huge difference.

It allowed our top two central midfield players to both have outstanding games - they looked great together – and both Cabaye and Tiote  probably had their best games of the season – to date.

Our very best chance of success to break our duck of trophies at Newcastle, which has been going on since 1969, and as far back as 1955 for a local trophy, is the Carling Cup.

And Newcastle have a strong enough team this season  to go on a decent run, so we have to hope that Pardew doesn’t make too many changes.

We have a feeling it will be a difficult game tomorrow night at the City Ground,  even though it looks like we should get through fairly easily.

But nothing is ever certain in football.

Comments welcome.

Tags: Carling Cup · Cheick Tiote · Demba Ba · Yohan Cabaye


172 responses so far ↓

  • 1 geordiefinn // Sep 19, 2011 at 3:44 PM

    This article says that Gosling “is poised for Carling Cup action”, so it seems that he’s OK.

  • 2 connor_nufc // Sep 19, 2011 at 3:49 PM

    james perch to score agaisnt his former club?

  • 3 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 3:50 PM

    If it wasnt for Given we would of won 2 or 3-1 maybe more

  • 4 shamsoftabriz // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:04 PM

    Given our relatively thin ranks at the back behind our starting four, I’m interested to see Ferguson. And while I’m happy HBA will be back on the pitch, it will take a few matches before I stop holding my breath every time someone comes in to challenge him. We need him to be fit for Blackburn though–that’s a game we need to take 3 points from. As solid as we’ve looked, there’s quite a log jam of solid teams…not much will separate 4th and 14th this year.

  • 5 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:10 PM

    Last 20 games away to Forrest:
    4 wins – 8 draws – 8 losses

  • 6 gstadt // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:21 PM

    GeordieToon89 – does that go back to the Cloughie team of the late 70′s early 80′s lol

  • 7 wynsleap // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:23 PM

    A good time to try out the Ameobi boys together up front?
    Marveaux should definitely start as should Elliott in goal. (needs to get the feel of the club if anything happens to Tim as it seems Harper isn’t going to play much).
    Would like to see Ferguson on left wing and another outing for Obertan on right wing to get him up to speed.
    Think Cabaye should be rested as he’s too valuable for Blackburn’s game. Guthrie could come in and do a decent job.
    Perch for the outstanding Colo would also be a suggestion with Saylor as captain.

  • 8 radge1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM

    Couple of observations from me about the Villa game. Firstly, i think Santon will make a big difference to this team. Not because Raylor isn’t doing a solid job, as i think he has plugged a gap. However, i think the problem is that Guti is having to hang back to help him out, or alternatively, Raylor isn’t pushing him forward the way Enrique did. Our penetration down the left wing was pretty poor on Saturday, especially compared to last season, when it was one of our strengths. We broke on four or five occasions against Villa and moved the ball across the pitch, but when it got to the point of rolling it out to the left wing, Guti was behind the play. Attacking play is very important to the modern full back, and when Santon is fit, i think our attack will be much more effective. Alternatively, we play with Marveaux and Santon on that side, which will scare the shyte out of most teams. The second point, is that Tiote & Cabaye remind me a lot of Petit & Viera. Not just coz of the obvious physical similarities, but because of how they play as a unit. Viera was the destroyer who breaks up play, but then would almost always play a short ball to Petit, who would then spray it about or shoot from distance. Our two play in exactly the same way together. Now if we can just find a Henry clone, we’ll be well away :)

  • 9 GEORDIE_LAD1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM

  • 10 AshtreeKid // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:34 PM

    we lost to forest when we were in the championship dont forget

  • 11 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:35 PM

    gstadt – goes back to 1967/68 season mate,

  • 12 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:37 PM

    AshtreeKid – aye we lost 1-0 mate but they had a better team when we wer in Championship they’ve lost a few of they better players and have a few injuries now plus they aint playing very well at home.. their home record is played 4 drew 2 lost 2

  • 13 gstadt // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:38 PM

    Geordietoon89 – that explains so many losses then :) good team that Cloughie had

  • 14 boater // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:41 PM

    I think we looked excellent on saturday overall. Dominating any villa side at villa park for the majority of the game is no easy task.. a lot of credit goes to the central midfield 2.. especially Cabaye.

    I’m not even that bothered about the striker situation at the moment – we do lack a certain type of mobile, player up front and hopefully that will come in at some point..

    the BIG area for improvement is on the wings – I like Guti, a hardworking, driving winger who stretches the pitch – and always gives an outlet – but obertan looks too similar – willing runners, no end product and wasteful in promising positions.. marveaux for obertan for blackburn.

    as for notts – sammi, guthrie, marveaux, fergie, arfa – all quality players potentially, should be a cracker.

  • 15 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:43 PM

    I read Forest had lost 9 player this window and gotten 5, and Stevie didn’t seem happy at all, plus they just lost at Derby.
    I think it’ll be an easy match tbh, we’ve found our feet a bit now.

  • 16 benscott123123 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:44 PM

    Like to see

    Perch Kadar Colo Santon
    Obertan Vuckic Marveaux
    Ba Sammy

  • 17 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:45 PM

    Does Pards have a cold? Poor bastard… ;)

  • 18 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 4:56 PM

    Anyone interested in old school football shirts take a look here. got toon away shirt 93-95 n some brand new one’s aswell, got some Partizan Belgrade shirts that are very newcastle-esque…think if our shirts were made by kappa they’d look like these :)

  • 19 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:02 PM

    oh, and i am praying to God that Alan Smith doesn’t start tomorrow…

  • 20 Sir Alan // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:04 PM

    lets remember how many chances Villa had as well though. Agbonlahor and Bent were very close to scoring a couple. All in all if you look at the amount of chances each team had, you would have to say a draw was a fair result, although i feel we looked the better team.
    On the forest game, i am not very confident whatsoever, there are countless amount of games that we play against lower opposition when we just don’t perform, particularly away from home. These are the games we should be scoring 3 or 4 but we don’t seem as fired up for it, whereas the lower teams always are. (Stevenage)

  • 21 bainbridge2930 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    Unfortunately forced to pick Perch to rest Saylor, hadn’t actually noticed how lacking in depth we were in defense. Basically forced to pick full strength defense minus Saylor.

    Simpson Perch Colo Raylor
    Obertan Gosling Marveaux
    Ba Sammy

    Benscott – Santons injured, I think Vuckic is aswell? and while im picking your team apart kadar isnt here anymore either….

  • 22 AshtreeKid // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:08 PM

    what about fergie?

  • 23 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:10 PM

    on the subject of alan smith…yes he’s gettin paid a bomb at the mo, but as a professional, he must be devastated at how his careers’ fizzled out….i mean, he’l b lucky to be on the bench tomorrow in carling cup team…id b gutted no matter how much money i was on like, did he ever get england call up in his day?

  • 24 Geordiedoonsooth // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:16 PM

    bainbridge2930 Kadar is still here he played for the stiffs last week

  • 25 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:16 PM

    @ roblee – he did, and scored with his head. He was wearing the number 9 shirt and was hailed as being Shearers successor.
    He was never really the same after that horrible injury. People take the P out of him, but you cant ever really question his balls

  • 26 Geordiedoonsooth // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:17 PM

    Smith is injured so he won’t be playing tomorrow and Gosling has a groin strain

  • 27 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:23 PM

    drongo – shame really, i always remember him as a pivotal part of that leeds team in the champions league…he’s been a shadow of that player since coming to us, or since his injury actually. having said that, i know it was a horrific injury he got at man u, but wouldnt say it was much worse than Ben Arfa’s…hope Ben Arfa doesn’t come back in the same way smith did, jesus…never thought of that

  • 28 Zangwill_Ho // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:25 PM

    james perch must play this game!!!!!!!!!!!!! haha

  • 29 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:26 PM

    @ roblee – smithys was worse – his break went through the joint which also dislocated. If you see it his foot is basically on backwards.
    HBA’s break, although nasty as it was both bones, was actually a clean ‘greenstick’ break, awy from the joint, so just a straightforward long bone. The complications came from an infection he got after the first op – the second op was pretty much cleaning it.

  • 30 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:27 PM

    zangwill_Ho – id go perch on his own up front, with lovenkrands in behind…deadly or what? haha

  • 31 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:28 PM

    Cheers for the info on the last thread mate ;)
    And on Smith, ye something happened to Smith after that leg break, and he’s never been the same since.
    And retraining him to CM/ACM at his age like Ferguson did destroyed him further.
    Allot were happy when we got him onboard it seemed, but he’s been as big a flop as any.
    He’s had COUNTLESS times to prove himself, but he seems fat, cares only for his hair. He tries to give 100% on the pitch, but sometimes it seems we’d be better of playing 10 men.
    He’s just so immensly poor…
    Too bad, he should’ve had a great career, and even worse that we’re stuck with him.
    I don’t think he even cuts it in the Championship anymore imo.

  • 32 benscott123123 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:28 PM

    Kadar is fit he played for the reserves, and im sure i read something about Vuckic being fit probably not i read so many reports online probably got them muddled up :-s

  • 33 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:29 PM

    drongo….that makes sense like. theres been some horrors over the years like…the one involving Schemichael and Bassett (or something like that, the Coventry guy) is the one that sticks in my mind most, that and Djibril Cisse, urgh

  • 34 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:30 PM


    I think there’s a worry about Ben Arfa returning to his former self aftter an injury as dodgy as his but I dont think you can compare it to Smiths.
    Smith was a centre forward turned defensive midfielder? I never really understood that to be honest but Ferguson obviosly had his reasons.
    Ben Arfa is a completely different player though. Skilful, creative and with lots of flair. Smith never had any of those things, as a centre forward he was typical english, hold up, strong, good finisher.
    Since going into midfield he was simply relying on his determination and combatability. Being that sort of player is far more difficult if you cant run anymore.

  • 35 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:31 PM


    The ‘Coventry guy’ was called David Buust.
    And he wasnt challenged. He simply caught his studs in the pitch, and the power of his own kick snapped his leg.

  • 36 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:32 PM


    Vuckic should be only a couple of weeks away with a healthy hand.
    I think he’s training cardio stuff, but they won’t risk him in training or in matches incase his hand is caught in a duel of some sort.
    Needs to heal fully so there’s no risk of complications it seems.

  • 37 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:32 PM

    dannyo… agreed on Smith, he’s awful, id be suprised if we seen him play again for us tbh, not that thats a bad thing. but as drongo says, it aint totally his fault from the injury and more fool us for giving him the last big payout of his footballing life…i think he knows it aswell which is why he’s running down his contract now

  • 38 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:35 PM

    Allerdyce signed Smith. No shock there. Some dude who gets about the pitch trying to fill people in. Typical Allerdyce signing. All physicallity and no intelligence.

    For me Smith is well within his rights to run his contract down. Its a shame that other more capable players have suffered/had to go because of Smiths contract.

    Barton would possibly have been offered a better deal had Smith not been on the payroll. And perhaps the club would have been more willing to stretch the wage structure / sign another player had Smith not been on such high wages.

  • 39 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:36 PM


    I read something during the transfer window this summer.
    We seemed to try to shift him as good as we could, but he had said he wanted to stay to see out his contract.
    No doubt, the mans on £70k + a week and is barely good enough for the bench at SCU…
    The Leeds link was confirmed to be true, but they couldn’t afford to pay even 1/3 of his wages… :/

  • 40 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:36 PM

    @ PI
    The move to DM was post injury – hed lost a lot of pace but still had his aggression and battling side – Fergie saw him as a successor to Keane, and was apparently pretty sad to have to let him go.
    He was initially a CF for ManU – they played Rooney off him – worked very well for a while.

    I thought Smithy was a similar type of CF to big Andy, I really wanted us to sign him from Leeds back in the day. We just got to him too late when his best years were already behind him. Thats one good thing we cant argue with under MA – all our players should be only getting better…..

  • 41 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:39 PM


    Did u see Henrys response on Barton today?
    He said Barton kept on saying “i’m on £80.000 a week”.
    Henry also said that last year he kept saying “I’m on £70.000 a week”.
    Could be Henry spouting shit to aggrevate Barton or get him in trouble with QPR, but shifting Barton just seemed allot more sense to me…

  • 42 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:42 PM

    Personally I quite like Smithy – he does give his all when he can – its just his body has given up before his brain.

    I would expect he will retire at the end of this season and so you can to some extent sympathise with him holding on for the final payday – thats got to see him and his family through the next 40 years… No final salary pension for sportsmen!

    I blame big Sam for giving a player who was clearly on his way out a long, expensive contract – same as Geremi.
    True to form he has just done the same again with Nolan.

  • 43 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:42 PM


    Yeah Smith was decent at man Utd prior to his injury. Like i said his battling qualities where what endeared him to play in the middle of the park. Unfortunately it also meant his peak years were cut short, and his rapid decline ability wise has come while hes been at newcastle.
    I agree that Smith may have been a big reason why Ashley and co have decided we buy young, and sell before they reach 30 so that we arent playing players for nothing.
    Iunderstand the logic, I just dont necessarily agree that ALL players are finished after the age of 28/29

    Les ferdinand signed for us aged 28 i think….

  • 44 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:46 PM


    Is this Carl Henry you’re on about? Yeah well there’s probably a bit of bad blood between the two of them. I also wouldnt be surprised if Barton said that, however Im not too bothered by it. If hes used it as a way of winding Henry up then its part of the game, and far rather that than any form of racism for example.
    Barton may be a worky-ticket but he showed hes a bloody good player and can still pull the strings.
    I would have liked to see him in black and white for another couple of seasons but it wasnt to be, and at the very least; should he cause any more controversy its someone elses problem now.

  • 45 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:46 PM

    does nobody want me toon away shirt like?! id keep it if i was a size XL, its mint! that was me fave shirt when i was kid :)

  • 46 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:47 PM

    @ PI – Yep – some of them just keep getting better – Gary Speed, Ryan Giggs are 2 names that spring to mind.

    But all sensible clubs give them a year or two at a time, rather than 5…

  • 47 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:49 PM

    and i meant mint condition there, haha, didnt mean to sound like a chav

  • 48 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:49 PM

    @P.I. #42
    I’m gonna take a guess that u directed that at me ;)
    Ye, it’s not so much the shit throwing i’m thinking about, it’s more the pay Barton may have been on.
    It’s around £25-30.000 more than i thought he was on when he was at us… Quite a bit of money that.

  • 49 roblee7 // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM

    remember when we signed john barnes n stuart pearce….haha, that was ridiculous, f dalglish, what a goon. n paul dalglish aswell, one very poor manager is mr dalglish!

  • 50 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM

    Giggs hasnt necessarily gotten any better, hes just not got any worse lol. He was an amazing winger when he was younger.
    Speed was class at Newcastle and brilliant in his 30s.

    Beardsley is probably the best example. Recalled to the England squad aged 35 and assisted Andy Cole for about 65% of his goals.
    Venison, Sellars, Bracewell, Killa, Beresford, Rob Lee, and no doubt many many more are players who enjoyed some of their best years when in their 30s

  • 51 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:52 PM

    Lets not forget how long David Seaman was in the goal… And David James was there for quite a while too…

  • 52 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:53 PM

    @ Dannyo – He’s certianly coining it at the moment. Bought a house within 5 days of signing for QPR, and just bought a banksy painting as a spur of the moment purchase.

  • 53 ochytoon // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM,,20876_7189460,00.html

    I have the utmost respect for Mourinho now

  • 54 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:55 PM

    @ PI – Scottish baldy midfielder who was superb for Liverpool – then was assistant manager at Villa most recently…. He was outstanding at 35

  • 55 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:55 PM


    Yes, sorry mate. Agreed. I thought Barton was on about 55k a week. Didnt expect it to be as high as 70!

    In which case i can see the logic of offering him a contract somewhere around the 50k a week mark for 2 years, (That would be what I would have given him)
    He obviously wanted 50K for 3 years and Ashley called his blough.

    Like I say though, its all water under the bridge now and hes someone elses problem / player.

    Cabaye is the guy who we can pin our midfield hopes on now. I thought on Saturday he fully capitalised on the space Villa afforded him and looked International class.

    He can sure strike a ball!

  • 56 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:56 PM

    Gary Mcallister

  • 57 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

    Gary Mcalister?

  • 58 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

    That should have read bluff haha

  • 59 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

    Aye, Cabaye is a dreamer, hehe.
    Gutted to see Given get those saves, but they’ll go past any other ;)
    The mans got goals in him, which is great.

  • 60 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 5:59 PM

    Yeah thats him!

  • 61 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM


    Thought he showed his real quality for the first time in black and white.
    The way he was bossing/winning the ball in middle of the park with Tiote, then picking it up just outisde the box was the sign of someone of real ability.
    Very unlucky with that shot off the bar.
    Petrov was completely mugged off by Cabaye I thought. Absolutely no coincidence that our best alround performance of the season came as Cabaye and Tiote played their best games.

  • 62 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

    One thing about Cabbie vs Villa is he and Petrov basically just ignored each other and each let the other run forward un-covered.
    That wont happen every game…

    However if oppositions stick someone on Cabaye then that just opens up space for HBA!

  • 63 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

    Any of you lads going down to the match tomorrow night?

  • 64 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

    Marveaux’s cross field ball onto Cabaye at the back stick was one of the most impressive pieces of link up ive seen from Newcastle in a long while. Lovely run, beautiful pass.


  • 65 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM


    And not only that, they still have stuff to improve on.
    I think Tiote found his old self a bit more in the second half, and u could see that with how he was easily able to break up lots of plays through the midfield for Villa, then give it forward to Cabaye who put some beautiful cannons at Given.
    Still more to come, and that is just great!

  • 66 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM

    Marveaux was our second highest chance creator with 3 on sat. Our highest was cabaye with 5. Marv also didn’t give the ball away once. Very impressive cameo and he looks a real exciting player

  • 67 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:05 PM


    Not me mate but im hoping to catch it in the boozer in Four Lane Ends haha

  • 68 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM


    Im going, just wondered if anyone else was bothering

  • 69 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:07 PM

    P.I black bull?

  • 70 NUFC STEVE // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:07 PM

    ARNE FRIEDRICH is now a free agent!!!!wud be 1st class CB cover?????!

  • 71 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:09 PM

    Well if anyone fancies it I can pick up in Darlo or Barnard Castle

  • 72 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:09 PM

    So, Cabaye has shown some of his stuff, Marveux has, Obertan needs work, Ba needs sharpness, Santon we’re still waiting to see, Abeid is close to the first team.
    Elliott seemingly getting the 2nd spot over Harper.
    Pretty decent window that imo, for a cost of what? £1 mill?
    Call it greedy or cheap, we’re starting to show some potential atleast :)

  • 73 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:09 PM

    @Andy – Agree – Im pretty excited about Marveaux… he does look like the business!

    Wonder how many of these lads Wenger will try to sign… or if he’ll quit Arsenal and come to SJP to work with them

  • 74 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:10 PM

    If we can get Marveaux fit to the point where hes ready to play for 90mins then it will put further pressure on Obertan to perform.
    If everyones fit and playing well then we can be a very good side.
    Age old problem though, once our best guys are injured or unavailble we look dodgy.

    By the way why wasnt Gossers on the bench on Saturday? Gutted me like, I like him.

  • 75 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:11 PM


    4 lane ends club at the back of the metro i think mate.

  • 76 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:12 PM

    It would be useful to see HBA and Marvaux out tomorrow night, see how they perform

  • 77 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

    Centre forwards to go for in January…

    Carroll (Liverpool) 5million???

  • 78 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

    Cabaye only signing so far to actually prove his worth i think. His early signs are v promising. Obertan ba and marveaux still have a bit to do till i can look at those as good business. Santon i haven’t seen in an nufc shirt yet so not judging him. P.I. didn’t even realise that was their haha. Just behind the car park?

    Looking forward to watching marv start as i missed the scunny game so didn’t get to see him in that

  • 79 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:17 PM

    Should suit them both just fine tbh, even starting them.
    It’s against a championship team, so atleast for Ben Arfa, it should be a nice and easy start, hopefully :P
    I think both Ben Arfa and Marveux would just be too much to handle.

  • 80 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM


    agree, hoping that Gosling will show through, suspect he can support Tiote and allow Cabaye to sit off the front two or one!! and vice versa

  • 81 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:19 PM


    Aye mate theres a little set of steps that go down to the entrance to the club. Always has the games on apparently. Proper old-man social club but its cheap games of pool and reasonable booze prices.

    If Ben Arfa and Marveaux were fit im sure they’d be starting whenever possible. Marveuaux seems to have an eye for a pass, we know what Ben Arfa was capable of prior to injury and then through an improving Cabaye into the mix and we have a lovely all-french midfield.


  • 82 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM


    on paper with free reign to play football, I am hoping the lads tear forest apart, but we all know what cup games are like

  • 83 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:21 PM

    I definitiely meant to type ‘throw’ haha

  • 84 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:23 PM

    In the clearing stands a boxer, and a fighter by his trade, and he carries the reminders of every glove that laid him down or cut him, till he cried out, in his anger and his pain, “I am leaving I am leaving” but the fighter still remains…

  • 85 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:23 PM

    @ PI – would you have him back??

    Certainly not based on current form…..

    I always thought DJ Campbell would have been worth a punt. He’s better than most people think. He has a soft spot for NUFC too – he came to light when we played Yeading away in a cup game and it got televised on BBC1.
    He was a part time plumber at the time…

  • 86 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:25 PM

    P.I. i said last night about HBA’s hand in transfers etc and i think everyone at the club is making him feel like the centre of attention. Everything we are doing seems to be centred around keeping him happy. Bringing a few of his pals in (Cabaye, marv, ba) will probably see him strike up good partnerships with them. Like him and Benzema at OM i hope. They were best of pals for a while we he was there (eventually fell out mind) and they were both being reported to clubs with a double bid of £60m or so. Him being happy and fit is key to our progression as a club i think. Pardew definitely thinks so

  • 87 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM


    Haha, you mean Carroll? To be honest mate thats why I only valued him at 5m haha.
    He’s been poor, maybe the fact that hes a bit of an idiot coupled with the big money move has went to his head. He would have been affected by the Spurs chants of “what a waste of money” on sunday aswell.

    I’d have Agbonlahor in like a flash though. And Kalou at Chelsea isnt getting a look in? How many would like to see us take a punt on him?

  • 88 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM

    Why don’t Isee the likes of Solano posting, these past few days?

  • 89 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM


    Completely agree with that. Yes it would certainly seem like we’ve done everything in our power to keep Hatem sweet while hes been injured. Not least signing him on a full contract even though he was crocked.

    I think there’s obviously the feeling at the club that they’ve got a potential gem on their hands, and further French influx will do nothing but encourage him.

  • 90 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:32 PM

    @ PI – Yep him!

    Well to be fair Gabby Aggy and Laou arent really punts like – capped England international and how many medals has Kalou got?

    But yeah take the point Id have either… prefer Gabby Aggy – Kalou is great mates with Drogba, who must be one of the biggest pr1cks in professional sport (right up there with Floyd Mayweather), which does make me question him a bit!

    Show me your friends and you show me you.

  • 91 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:32 PM

    *Kalou rather than Lauo!!

  • 92 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:35 PM

    Drogba off the pitch seems to be one of the nicest guys in football! Even on the pitch he is hugging everyone haha. Also MMBP don’t know if he’s been on this weekend but he’ll be on at some point i think. The other lads involved in their campaign thing have all been on really happy with performance etc

  • 93 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM

    Yeah i’d rather have Agbonners than Kalou, but I know Agbonlahor is a Brummie through and through and it would take some offer to shift him from Villa.
    Kalou is more likely but would he do the business? Ive seen him play so little for Chelsea in the last 6 months.

  • 94 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:37 PM

    @ PI – the more I hear about HBA the more it seems that he thrives on that kind of pressure and needs to have the team built round him.

    To be honest you can say a bit of that about Carrol, we were a team built around him – Joeys long balls, JE’s crossing, Nolan to tap in the flick ons…. Now he has to fit in with a team its all falling down for him.

    someone said something on here a week or so ago about sometimes clubs make players…. Think that was defo the case with Carroll

  • 95 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:39 PM

    My team for tomorrow:

    Abeid_______Ben Arfa________Marv

    Think we’ll run them ragged.

  • 96 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:41 PM


    I think it’s too early to tell with Carroll. He’s still young and finding his feet at Liverpool.
    True, hes not exactly fitting in with the way they play at the minute but he’ll get his chance and he’ll still score a few goals.

    I hope Liverpool fall flat on their faces though. No love for their manger either.

  • 97 benscott123123 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:42 PM

    Can’t wat to see a team of

    Simpson Colo Taylor Santon
    Tiote Cabaye
    Obertan Ben Arfa Marveaux

    That’s not including Vuckic Best Jonas Raylor Ameobi, probably the most excited I’ve been about a Newcastle side this early in a season as I have been In ages regardless of a “big name” striker.

  • 98 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:43 PM


    Liverpool always have and always be arrogant

  • 99 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:43 PM

    Abeid is injured i think. Not too sure but if not i’d like him to start. Perch hopefully will be up for it as it is his old club. He also needs to put in a good performance for us at some point

  • 100 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:43 PM

    @ PI – yep he will chip in with a few thats for sure. Am just smugly satisfied that things are going the way they are over there.

    Agree on mad Kenny. Stephan Guivarche, say no more.

  • 101 Scottishmag1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:43 PM

    will be

  • 102 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM


    haha, surely the worst decision was flogging Ferdinand and signing Barnes and Rush.

  • 103 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM

    Champions league with Barnes as lone striker.

    Mad as a hatter.

  • 104 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM

    I detest Liverpool. So glad to see they’ve forked out 100m, for a bunch of mediocre players.

    Carroll is a fish out of water, in that team; he knows it too.

  • 105 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:47 PM

    Swapping Ferdinand and Ginola for Guivarche and David Batty is the bit that always gets my goat.

  • 106 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:48 PM

    Forgot about Ian Rush!!

    How many did he score for us? I know he scored against Everton but was that it?

  • 107 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:49 PM

    Well, if we can keep our unbeaten streak for a little while yet, i think we’ll soon forget a bit about that elusive striker…
    Atleast until January, lol.
    Also, we can’t draw all our matches either.

  • 108 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:51 PM

    He scored in the cup against everton aye. Cant recall any other notch.
    Stuart Pearce scored a free kick block buster in the champions league i remember, probably 36 years young at the time!
    Guivarch was an absolute joke.
    And i liked Batty (Keegan signed him) and he played with Ginola, but Daliglish sold Ginola to Spurs, and replaced him with Steven Glass!

  • 109 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:53 PM

    Des Hamilton. Need I say more?

  • 110 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:55 PM

    @Milking Mikes’ bulging pockets

    Liverpools one thing, about how the sums Scum has forked out for their retirement ready players….?

  • 111 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM

    @ PI – Yep – was just looking that up – you’re right. Batty signed in the Summer and Mad Kenny arrived in Jan.

    Stepehen Glass!!! I remember him….

    Guivarche won a poll for the worst PL player in history not that long ago

  • 112 drongo // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:57 PM

    He also signed Paul Dalglish and kept playing him with Shearer…..

  • 113 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM

    Yeah I used to love Batty and Lee in the middle of the park for us. Gillespie and Ginola on the wings.

    But aye, if Guivarch was the worst then surely Marcelliono wasnt far off?
    Dalglish’s son Paul wasnt much kop either!

  • 114 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:59 PM

    One of my earliest football memories, was a magnificent overhead clearance, off our goal line. Think it were Darren Peacock, but it’s a little hazy….

    Can anybody else remember this, and indeed tell me if it was Peacock?

  • 115 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 6:59 PM

    Anyway got to go. Take care lads, enjoy the game tomorrow.

  • 116 P.I. // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:00 PM

    I can kind of remember this overhead kick. hmmm, was it not Acuna?

  • 117 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM

    I can’t remember :( would have only being 5/6. All I know is, he was sprinting back and it was the most spectacular clearance ever! :lol:

    Could have been against Liverpool?

  • 118 cyprus // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:21 PM

    Sorry for late response WW, others may be interested too.

    I was just venting my frustration at Shola… Being a fan I want to like him but:

    He has never hit double figures in the PL In the PL, he scores once every almost 6 games (38 in 116 if you want to do the maths – or math if you are American) and that includes penalties! I am always hoping for him to score but the stats talk for themselves. So, is he our 3rd best CF? If he is, we are in trouble if one of the 2 ahead of him gets injured.

  • 119 dmac // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:23 PM

    I have a feeling the overhead was beresford.

  • 120 boater // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:26 PM

    keep reading that we are Ok apart from the strikers – can someone name 1 single clearcut chance missed by a striker all season? They have been feeding off absolute scraps and half chances at best..

    Much better against villa but the problem remains the final ball, once we get better balls in from the wings we can judge the strikers.

  • 121 pardew no 1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:29 PM

    remember when ameobi scored against barca

  • 122 supatoonkid // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:30 PM

    With Forest playing awful i would definately agree and play this as a weakened starting XI:


    R. Taylor
    Sammy Ameobi
    Shola Ameobi

    Vuckic is injured i think but if not he can go in the squad for Collocini as if a defender gets a centre half gets injured we can just put Perch into centre back and put R. Taylor on at right back.

  • 123 cyprus // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:35 PM

    Pardew 1,
    yes he did score in the 3-1 defeat. Anyway, on the subject, I think Ba will come good now that the Ramadan is over. I mean, did he really not eat all day and play like he did? Give him some pork (sorry lamb) chops and he’ll be flying now.

  • 124 boater // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:37 PM

    KD signed Speed, Hamann, Solano, Given, Pearce, Dabizas, Hughes, Griffin, Tomasson – so they weren’t all bad players. He had horrific luck with the shearer/tino injuries.

    Guivarch started 4 games so that’s bollox as well. He had just come off a season scoring 30+ goals in france, can’t remember too many complaints when he came.

    The first mistake was his sacking – or anyone – after just one bad season, especially 2 games in. That became the precedent for years to come. It was entirely

  • 125 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:37 PM

    Agree there mate, our CBs and CMs look good, Best looks lively and Ba has gotten increasingly better.
    Gutti has good workrate and tracks back ALLOT to help Raylor so he’s having a hard time being as offensive as he could’ve been with a proper LB.
    Obertan, he’s so on and off, but still looks like he doesn’t have his heart in it.
    We need Marveux to feed the strikers, he’s our best bet at this point, then keep Jose on the RW, maybe it helps if he has Simmo behind him instead.

  • 126 boater // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:38 PM

    shepherd’s fault we capitulated.. *

  • 127 cyprus // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:40 PM

    supatoonkid and others putting out teams,

    I like the fact that now we have something we haven’t had for a while: Depth! People like Fergie, Vuckic, Sammy, HBA, Abeid, Gosling, Marveaux have hardly had a look in and they are almost ready to play. And let’s not forget Ranger who has shown so much unrealised promise.

  • 128 boater // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:41 PM

    folk trotting out the ramadan thing on here is annoying.. don’t mind pardew saying it to protect the player but howay..

    1) dzejko amongst others was on ramadan – he was on fire
    2|) why play ba if he’s not up to it?

  • 129 gonz // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:43 PM

    team for tomorrow will look like this:


    ————————–Ben Arfa——————

    Abeid, Elliot, Lovenkrands, Sameobi, Taylor, Shola, Cabaye

  • 130 cyprus // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:44 PM

    Could you play if you had no food or water – all day mate?

  • 131 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 7:51 PM

    If nobody can categorically pin this overhead kick down, I’m going to put it down to a vivid childhood dream…….

  • 132 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:03 PM

    What’s crack tonight then? Is it a ghost town on here yet…or is that just Sunday nights?

  • 133 ochytoon // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:04 PM

    Its a ghost town

  • 134 dmac // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:08 PM

    Boater mate i read an interview i will see if i can track it down, Dzeko opted not to commit to ramadan as other Muslim’s do. It can be done in a variety of way’s apparently and you can choose how much or little you do. It isn’t to be viewed as a punishment and therefore if it interfers with work etc there are exceptions. I am however not saying that Ba and Tiote and Ben Arfa fully commited im just saying that may be a diff.

  • 135 roshan MAGPIE // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:09 PM

    can you guys please stop talking about the history of NUFC and those players who played at that time and start concentrating in the present and future of NUFC and its players

  • 136 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:11 PM

    Been a bit more lively tonight mate.
    Allot of nostalgic stuff ;)
    But it’s all good :)

  • 137 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:13 PM

    Ochytoon oh good chat is over rated these days haha

  • 138 Milking Mikes' bulging pockets // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:14 PM

    It’s ‘serene’. Enjoy it. :)

  • 139 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    A trip down memory lane? Where’s my ticket haha

  • 140 Andy // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    Stan Collymore the least educated knowledgeable radio pundit ever? Pushing lawro for his title atm

  • 141 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:22 PM

    MMbp is looking for someone to help him remember a certain overhead kick at one point.

    I remember a certain overhead kick, however it’s got nothing to do with this tho. Still epic.
    It was a Norwegian lad (man) who was 38 years of age.
    In fact, it’s the older brother of Tore Andre Flo, who played for Chelsea in the “Zola” days ;)
    His name is Jostein Flo, it was in a match in the “Eliteserie” here in Norway, top division.
    The man was 38 years old, a striker, in his last year of contract.
    Would u belive that he was able to pull off an excellent overhead kick from 16 yards out and get it straight in the upper right corner of the net.
    Many years ago that was.
    I’m sure u can find it on youtube, think i’m gonna go try.

    38 years old, and he’s as tall as Shola but fatter… Hang on, i’ll see if i can find it.

  • 142 geordiefinn // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:28 PM

    Seems there’s a little chat about overhead kicks.. How about this one?
    Jari Litmanen did this one year ago, at the age of 39. Not bad at all :D

  • 143 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:30 PM

    Bah, can’t find it, was back in 98, but no vids.

  • 144 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:39 PM

    10 mins without a post, yup, ghost town again.

  • 145 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:41 PM

    Sky sports are saying:
    Smith, Vuckic, Abeid and Williamson are our injured players and Gosling should make an appearance if he shakes off a groin injury.. Also says Williamson is missing for a broken arm like

  • 146 toonblog1 // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:44 PM

    The overhead kick was Barry venison in a cup game! We got beat vs Luton with John hartson bagging the winner!

  • 147 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:46 PM

    Think Vuckic and Abeid are closing in on fitness, but won’t be ready for tomorrow ofc, Williamson we all know about, Gosling is too bad :/
    Smith injured?? THANK GOD!!!

  • 148 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:47 PM

    Haha sorry got distracted by this

  • 149 deyansabourian // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:48 PM

    is the game on tv tomorrow in america? what channel?

  • 150 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:48 PM

    See Vuckic has only got a broken finger really dont understand how he cant play, a played with a broken wrist before hey a even tried kicking a ball with a full length cast on me leg haha footballers these days bunch of softies

  • 151 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:52 PM

    Hehe, well, we’re not risking anyone too soon these days, which can only be a good thing tbh.
    But i get where u’re coming from ;)
    What if someone slams into it, and he goes into a world of hurt? Wouldn’t be good.

  • 152 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:54 PM

    WWJBD – that videos class mate haha.. wish Jonas would do more like tht against Wolves

  • 153 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 8:59 PM

    Dannyo – a suppose he aint getting payed enough to have a little pain haha nah man a agree should risk someone with any injury especially not someone so young with as much potential as him rather get him fully fit and he can challenge Ben Arfa for the number 10 role, he’s that good.!

    ——Guthrie–Gosling <— if fit

  • 154 GeordieToon89 // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:03 PM

    got a feeling Shola will be starting, especially if Colo doesnt start then Shola will and he’ll be captain anall

  • 155 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:05 PM

    There is some cracking youtube vids for NUFC like :) Makes me remember why I love this club so damn much

  • 156 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:16 PM

    Right am done with youtube haha
    Forest game tomorrow night it is then

    Simmo Perch Saylor Raylor
    Obertan Guthrie Tiote Marv
    Best Shola

    HBA Sammy and Ba all getting on the pitch as subs would be my guess

  • 157 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:18 PM

    Oh another thing I read today that made me smile

    Thats very classy imo

  • 158 Young_Mag // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:35 PM

    Has anyone got any idea if Shane Ferguson is fit?

    I know he played for the reserves the other day n a lot of you’s haven’t got him in your team selection for tomorrow?

  • 159 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 9:42 PM

    He is fit I believe but he is a LW and Marv needs the minutes more than Ferguson right now. He could play LB I suppose but quite frankly he isnt that good there…..but then neither is Raylor

  • 160 Young_Mag // Sep 19, 2011 at 10:08 PM


    Thanks mate. Good point it’s just because he wasn’t in many people’s squads so was unsure, I’d put him on after about 60 mins personally

  • 161 overfield01 // Sep 19, 2011 at 10:09 PM

    1st time poster here folks.

    After scanning a few Forest forums and seeing results this season, they seem to be in absolute turmoil, even more so than we forever seem to be on the verge of.

    The game looks to be there for the taking but of course nothing is certain. They will be fired up after losing to Derby but if we get an early goal the sting will be completley taken out of the game and the crowd will start to turn on Mclaren and indeed his players.

    A personal preference would be to keep Ben Arfa on the bench and bring him on if a) we desperatly need him on the pitch or b) we’re cruising and we can let him have a stroll for 20 minutes. Starting him against fired up lower league opponents is perhaps unwise, although i know we’re all desperate to see him get minutes.

    Gosling & Ba could be key men and both need a goal to ignite there Newcastle careers, tomorrow could be perfect for them to do so.

    If Newcastle get an early goal they could fill their boots as like I mention before, poor Mclaren really is having a bad time of it at the City ground, and there fans really want us out the way so they can focus on league fixtures,

  • 162 WWJBD // Sep 19, 2011 at 10:23 PM

    Its a fair point and tbh I had forgotten about Fergy a bit would like to see him get some game time maybe Marv RW and Fergy LW….though dont know how well Marv can play RW

  • 163 tonynufc // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:12 PM

    does anybody know of any links for the match tomorrow.

  • 164 Tommyy // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:22 PM

    On a different not, has anyone read the match report on What a load of drivel! I cannot begin to comprehend the fact that someone, somewhere has been paid to write that. Last time I checked Obertan was on a 5 year contract, and not on loan. Aswell as it being Cabaye who fired over in the last minute, not Marveaux! Really boils my piss that they can’t even get a simple match report correct.

  • 165 ochytoon // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:24 PM

    Sky hate us, they probably did it on purpose

  • 166 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:25 PM

    Should’ve seen Le Pissier talk about our match afterwards… What a load of bullocks.

  • 167 ochytoon // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM

    Hey, don’t talk ill of Le Tiss

  • 168 Dannyo // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:35 PM

    If u heard what he said, u’d say it too. A complete waste of space in that studio he was.
    There’s a reason he’s a pundit and not a manager.

  • 169 Milner // Sep 19, 2011 at 11:55 PM






    …there really are many diff options available nowadays, love it. This would be my reckoning..

  • 170 GeordieToon89 // Sep 20, 2011 at 12:00 AM

    ochytoon – sorry bud but Le Tiss is a tw*t dont get me wrong he was a cracking footballer who a would of loved at newcastle but hea now an official tw*t because hes a pundit for sky and they all tw*t except Jeff Stelling lol even Alan Shearer is a tw*t now hes in with hansen nd lineker, but a still love him for what he did for us

  • 171 blissna // Sep 20, 2011 at 1:08 AM

    Tony. Check

  • 172 magpiebop // Sep 20, 2011 at 10:19 AM

    Our midfield has so much strength in depth this season it’s unbelievable so have to mix it up big time as we don’t really know our best line up and players are battling to get themselves up the pecking order.
    Also our striking positions don’t look nearly as weak as previously thought especially wii a lot of the midfield looking like they can play off the number 9 role striker. Our main striker pecking order is more or less established wii Best clearly the main man. Shola shouldn’t be considered alongside Best although he is adequate back up should he get injured and I think he has grown a little as a player since Shearer retired and even a little more since Martins and Owen jumped ship becoming the main man, his start to the Championship season before injury was sensational and personally I think a lot of the criticism levelled at Shola is a bit unjust and as he has always been a confidence player could even affect his form a bit, so lay off Shola he has been canny especially since we went doon! Then I’d have Ba who looks more like a number 10 to be honest so is gonna find himself challenging Ben Arfa for the shirt most the time. Lovenkrands not nearly as bad as people make out wii his near 1 in 2 record for us is more a utility player but makes quite intelligent runs in behind which a Cabaye, Ben Arfa or Marveaux should be able to pick out! (Unlike Nolan who was a good battling box to box player great at breaking forward and causing problems in the box but whose passing range was limited, Cabaye seems to have it all in the same role and that’s saying something as Nolan was my favourite player last season but despite the furore of him leaving wouldn’t get in this team anyway and the same goes for Barton because we’re not playing long ball football now since Carroll his easy target left because most his crosses came from deep and we should get even greater rewards wii players hitting the by line and pulling the ball back (surprised Liverfool didn’t take him for nowt to supply Carroll(if we’d put a 12m price tag on him they might have) but at the end of the day he was surplus to requirements and in the early games this season his unwillingness to run on into the box from central midfield was a reason for our lack of goal scoring chances something Gosling is really good at as showed when he came on vs makems).
    Side tracked a bit but this explains my reasons for the striker order of merit-

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