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News and Commentary On Newcastle United By Ed Harrison, A Proud Exiled Geordie And Lifelong Fan

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Will Ashley Continue To Run Newcastle On A Shoestring?

10:24 am, Thursday, September 12th, 2013 by Dr. Ed Harrison · 212 Comments

The mood of Newcastle fans last night at Steve Harper’s testimonial match were in stark contrast to how the fans feel about how the club is bring run by owner Mike Ashley at the moment – seemingly on a shoestring.

mike ashley 987

Mike Ashley – why did he buy Newcastle?

And for the second summer transfer window running Newcastle have made no real investment in the playing squad at Newcastle, with the result that most Newcatsle fans expect a lower half finish in the Premier League this season.

Where Will Newcastle Finish This Season?

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The expectations are not high, to say the least.

But when you saw the turnout last night of over 50,000 at St James’ Park, it brings into stark perspective how Newcastle could (should) be challenging for a top four position in the Premier League, if only the owner would agree to spend the profits the club are now starting to make.

Each PL club will now get between £60M and £100M each season for the next three years, compared to £40M to £60M with the previous three-year TV deal.

And we saw a number of smaller clubs spend big money in the summer because of this coming windfall – but not Newcastle.

The powers that be at Newcastle (or in short Mike Ashley), must raise their ambitions for the club, and at the very least agree to spend the profits on new players and facilities,  so we can get back to being a top team in England again.

If Mike Ashley doesn’t want to do that – then a very good question is why did he buy Newcastle in the first place?

Are there any Geordie Billionaires around these days? 😀

Comments welcome.

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Tags: Financial Fair Play · Financials · Newcastle News · Recruitment · Transfer News and Rumours




212 responses so far ↓

  • 1 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:28 AM

    I remember reading some people on this blog slagging off Harper last season because he was (according to them) happy sitting on the bench all his career and taking home £40kpw. They called him unambitious, overrated and many other things.

    I wish I had a record of those people so they could be named and shamed. His love for the club is obvious.

  • 2 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:35 AM

    Should be challenging for a top four position Ed? Behave!

    Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool are simply much bigger clubs that us on the basis of being run well for decades, Man City and Chelsea are much bigger clubs that us because they have been artificially inflated by hundreds of millions of point of investment and Spurs are also bigger than us now due to being run very well for the last 10 or 15 years.

    The rot started before MA took over and I hope everyone acknowledges that.

    No point in looking backward, so looking from this point, there are only 2 realistic ways that we can be regularly challenging the top 4:
    1 – a multi-billionaire owner bankrolls us like City or Chelsea (is this even realistic any more with FFP?)
    2 – Gradual improvement in all areas of a very well run club (like Spurs) for at least 5 years

    We’re always going to be fighting an uphill battle because we’re not based in London or Manchester and we don’t have a name like Liverpool.

  • 3 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM

    I’m really enjoying this conversation with myself.

    Well done ToonDarn Sarf, I couldn’t have put it better myself! You truly are a wonderfully insightful and articulate Toon fan. I wish you were the Chairman of NUFC. And you’re also handsome and witty, I wish we could all be like you…

    :-)

  • 4 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM

    I can’t even type my own name correctly though…

  • 5 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:41 AM

    If I was one of those “first” muppets, then I’d probably have to disappear off for a few minutes with a box of tissues…

  • 6 Mr Robson // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:42 AM

    Was Cashley there last night?

  • 7 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:44 AM

    TDS….I think it’s these extremes that come out that cloud this whole issue.

    Of course fans would love to be challenging the top 4, but without some serious investment that will always be a challenge.

    I think most just want to see some actual intent to challenge something other than survival to top 10…which looking at recent seasons, is the relegation battle for the majority of the season.

    We just want to see some spirit, some pride, can you tell me where we get to see that these days?

  • 8 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM

    be really interesting to see what Pardew says actually today… I hope the journalists haven’t quite forgotten about Joe Kinnear or the transfer window just yet and raise the issue!
    Would love to see us go 4-3-3 vs Villa and play sissoko, cabaye and anita in midfield and HBA, cisse and Remy up front, got this awful idea that w’re going to see 4-4-2 with a mid of Sissoko, tiote, cabaye and jonas with Remy and Cisse upfront!
    The only other possible formation I wouldn’t mind as we’re away from home would be 4-4-1-1 with Sissoko, tiote, cabaye and jonas in the mid and HBA just behind Remy. Think Cisse has played for far too long without fear of the drop!

  • 9 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM

    TDS

    We should be competing with spurs really, they have been consistent top ten but only looked to kick on around 6 years ago.

    When we got 5th we should have kicked on as spurs did, we failed to kick on. So although we could be a couple years behind them we shouldn’t be standing still as much as we are.

    I think we just dont employ people like spurs who have the intelligence to take us forward, they seem to just want to sustain league status.

  • 10 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:46 AM

    TDsarf,
    You are worse than one of those first muppets.

  • 11 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:48 AM

    ibiza

    spurs showed by buying and SELLING well, then you can compete for top 4 with the bigger boys. We should be doing that, thats the main thing….or at least progressing in that direction.

  • 12 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:50 AM

    @Ibiza @TDS – to be honest, i’m not massively annoyed that we don’t spend money, and I’m realistic enough not to expect us to challenge at the top! I’d happily watch a predominantly geordie team made up of passionate local lads play football in the right way, attacking and committed for an honest manager and battle their way to midtable with every point! The massive question for me from the ashley reigime would be why we rarely produce top talent for the first team! I know theres a few decent lads coming through but the north east is football mad, surely we should be producing Waddles, Shearers, Gascoignes and beardsleys? at least one or 2! we used to produce players with pace and skill…. nowadays its big carthorses like ameobi, taylor and carroll

  • 13 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    just posted this a couple of thread back i seem to be on another planet today.

    What was annoying last night over a thousand people were turned away and there was over 1000 empty seats, over £10,000 lost to the likes of cancer research, it would be ironic if Ashley got it one day. but anyone who did not go can still donate £10 to the Bobby Robson trust or even £1 one day someone will give the £1 that cures cancer. unfortunately most of us now someone that’s been struck down by this awful disease.and noticed many toon fans that could not go to the game have paid the ten pound, don’t be a tight *rse you never know it could be your own life your £1 saves so come on get it done. that 9 bar was charging £20 entry but not sure who pocketed the cash, might moan on to the chronicle and shame them to donate the money collected.

  • 14 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    Ibizatoon

    I think 50,000 people saw it last night mate…

    When we finished 5th, I didn’t think that we played amazing football and often our goals relied on a moment of genius or a mistake. But what we did have was fantastic spirit and all the players pulled together. The same the 2 seasons beforehand really, but we added a little extra class that season that took us to 5th place.

    Last season that was missing. I want to see the players absolutely bust a gut assuring that we do NOT finish in the bottom half. That we may be struggling against the top 6 so that 7th place is ours and we’re ready to capitalise if a top 6 club slips up. I also want to see proper teams in the cups. I want the players to be inspired by the passion of last night and be desperate to be the next set of legends for actually bringing a trophy back home.

    That has bugger all to do with Ashley. He can run the club on a shoestring as much as he wants, that’s down the spirit of the players and how much the manager and the fans can bring it out of them.

  • 15 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:53 AM

    TS

    Even when we finished in 5th, that was an overachievement mate. The quality of the squad, the infrastructure, the global revenue, they kick our arse in all counts sadly, and then did when we finished 5th too. They’ve finished in the top 10 virtually every year for a decade. That’s what we need to attract more global fans, top players, sponsors etc.

  • 16 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:54 AM

    JfA

    Thanks for your constructive comments. I always know I can rely on your and your insight…

  • 17 Spoof // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:55 AM

    TDS

    1 – a multi-billionaire owner bankrolls us like City or Chelsea (is this even realistic any more with FFP?)
    2 – Gradual improvement in all areas of a very well run club (like Spurs) for at least 5 years

    the first option is hit and miss, no one has control over that possibly happening, option number 2 is controlable and it is the option which we hope to be on, however with a team which came 5th just 2 seasons ago with last years £13m operating profit combined with the extra Sky revenue we should be progressing, which is what you call for with gradual improvement, however can you honestly say that we have improved from 2 seasons ago, the truth is we have gone backwards and not forwards, granted we might have over achieved 2 years ago but not to the extent which see’s us where we are, what you ask for sounds fine, but honestly, it looks very much as if we are in reverse, and that is why there is so much hostility, ecspecially when you take the finance into concideration.

  • 18 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:56 AM

    TDS

    I think not bringing in signings a manager says he needs to help the team (if he says it to the media he must say it to the squad, either that or they see the papers as well) and then these players dont arrive I think it makes them disheartened, same with the manager.

    Not a total excuse as they are paid well and should work their socks off, some of them dont do that often enough. So it still comes down to the players motivating themselves but some factors will effect them.

  • 19 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:58 AM

    jayphoto

    Hardly any clubs in the country are producing players like that though. That’s more a flaw with the whole football structure, not just at Newcastle. And considering MA has only been there for 6 years, he can’t be blamed for that surely?

    It’s nice to see Geordies in the team but Asprilla, Lee, Barton (even though I dislike him), Ginola and many other players have showed fantastic passion for this club despite not being local. We just need some of that.

    Of the non-Geordies, who obviously shows passion out of the current players? I’d go with Krul, Colo and Raylor, maybe Ben Arfa too. But not sure about the rest.

  • 20 low fell mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 10:58 AM

    Spurs will never be top 4, totally out classed by the Arsenal, so don’t kid yourself.

  • 21 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:00 AM

    TDS

    we have a damn site more global fans than spurs do. Their revneue was simply higher due to the 20+mil from champs league revenue that year.

    We get very similar TV money (they’ll have a bit more prize money) and we’ll have higher gates.

    Would like to know both clubs turnover for the past 4 years, each year.

    But when you go around europe, not sure how much this is an indication, but all markets/shops/etc what sell football stuff always have so much more newcastle than spurs, I would say we have more global fans.

  • 22 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:01 AM

    low fell

    maybe, but they do compete and have finished 4th twice in the last 4 season

  • 23 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM

    Spoof

    I don’t think we’re in reverse at all, I think our squad is significantly better, we have increased the size of the first team squad, our players should be still improving to their peak and we have some youngsters breaking through. One problem is clearly that the clubs that should be below us have improved at a quicker rate than us. I don’t believe that signing 2 or 3 decent players means that they have caught us but they have closed the gap, whereas I don’t think we’ve closed the gap on the top 6 in the slightest, in fact it’s grown.

    I think the reputation between MA and the fans is broken (despite what Harper says) so I don’t see 2 happening until we get a new owner or a miracle happens between the fans and MA.

  • 24 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM

    TDSarf…Everyone has their own theories as to what caused that loss of belief.

    Truth is, with these players and manager we got that 5th placed finish and did show those spirited performances…why has it stopped?

    Is it simply they’ve been Pardewed?
    Has Pardew Pardewed himself?
    Or is something happening upstairs that has deflated them? Left them feeling what the point is?

    There will always be part of it down to the manager and players, I just can’t help but feel that after working so hard, achieving the impossible and then getting no support from the owner a clear indication of the aspirations / ambitions of the man they simply dropped their heads. That doesn’t absolve them of blame, but surely we have to look at the root issue here?

    I have no problem being self sufficient, but that shouldn’t deter away from pushing forward, as pointed out by TS. There are still ways to push on, show some ambition and give the fans some excitement.

    Why aren’t we getting it? If it is the manager, then why is he still here?

    Jayphoto…All we can ever ask is that those who represent us give their best. From top to bottom, I don’t feel that is what we’re getting. It’s a sorry state of affairs. However, on the playing side of things, I am intrigued to see how we approach Aston Villa. There were some promising signs in the Fulham game.

    fatman…Were they turning people away? On what grounds?

  • 25 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:03 AM

    @TS To be fair to Ashley, he’s kept our prices well under spurs for everything, shirts, pies, drinks, tickets etc Spurs’ revenue is alot higher than ours, and their owners alot richer!
    Think though we should be ahead of evertons’ norwichs and southamptons! Personally think we should be spending 25m each transfer window! Club seems obsessed with finding a bargain, thats fair enough but our greatest players have been either locally produced or players we’ve payed the going rate for! We didn’t get shearer, Bellamy, Rob Lee etc on the cheap! we paid the market value for them as other clubs were interested! Surely we could have bargains by paying the market value and then developing that player into a more valuable asset?
    For example – Gareth Bale cost near on 15m for Spurs from a championship bottom club at the time! We would have never been interested in him because he wasn’t value for money, but spurs developed him and now look! same as ronaldo from sporting lisbon! wenger said he wasn’t worth 10m… Wish the club would try harder to increase a players value through coaching rather than buying players with a year to go on their contract or with a release clause

  • 26 Belfast // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:03 AM

    Yes he will.
    The sooner he leaves the better

  • 27 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:04 AM

    TS

    Man Utd, Arsenal and others didn’t bring in enough players either. Sure Ozil is a real boost for Arsenal but they expected several signings. Man Utd just signed Fellaini when they were calling out for an Ozil type player.

    I don’t think it should matter to he players that we only brought in Remy. That’s an opportunity for players to prove that we didn’t need to sign anyone.

  • 28 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:05 AM

    I’m off guys, catch you later

  • 29 low fell mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:06 AM

    Transfer ,not any more

  • 30 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:08 AM

    TDsarf,
    Granted, we over achieved in a season that saw Chelsea have a poor league finish and Lpool going through a transition but with the correct investment we could have instilled the confidence in the players that might have kept up hopeof a European finish, I’m not talking massive investment, the 19M that was spent in January would have bought the RB, CB and striker we desperately needed with just those three extra players those key injuries might not have been so crucial, and imo opinion it was more to do with the message that window sent to the players that crippled moral tban the injuries and Pardews ineptitude.

  • 31 low fell mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:08 AM

    TDS @ 24 well said,

  • 32 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:08 AM

    @TDS Passion in the lads we’ve got now, i wouldn’t add ben arfa into that! He plays for himself and himself only! Great talent, but he would leave in a heartbeat if the right offer came in! It won;t though as he’s far too selfish to play for a top team and his stats don’t lie! Hes fantastic going past people, but his short passing can be woeful! He has zero vision and widely lashes at chances! Some go into the top corner granted but more often than not they fly out of play!
    I’d add Cisse into the lads with passion! Met him a while back and the lads truly in love with the club! he speaks like a newcastle fan! He’s a really open guy! Doesn’t get on with our fearless leader Pardew at all though, seemed to really dislike him

  • 33 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:08 AM

    TS

    I don’t know how global fans are measured but I’ve seen the figures for Spurs revenue and it’s still about 50% higher than ours fairy consistently. The sad fact is that the latest year that is looked at (2012) when Spurs had £140M odd compared to out £90M odd, theirs was actually down about £20M from the previous season.

    So our finances are nowhere near sadly.

    We need to compete despite the financial situation and if the club is well run then we will get the money from new sponsors, prize money and global merchandising.

  • 34 Spoof // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:10 AM

    TDS

    you say we aren’t in reverse but you then say that we have not closed the gap to the top 6, in fact you yourself have said it is growing, but some of those below us have closed the gap on us, the truth is I couldn’t have put it better myself as what you have just described is us going backwards.

    If those around you are improving at a greater rate than yourself, you are going backwards.

  • 35 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    Ibizatoon

    I simply put it down to bad judgement and then bad luck. The powers that be should have realised that we achieved 5th place IN SPITE of our small squad, not because of it. Look at how often and how well the spine of Krul, Colo, Tiote, Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Ba/Cisse played that season. They played virtually every game and played well. That gave confidence.

    Look at the contributions from that lot last season and pretty much every one is woeful due to injuries and lack of form.

    It’s that simple for me.

    And we know the fans live on a knife edge because we are so desperate for success. Last season tipped many over that edge because they were so hopeful from the 5th place finish.

  • 36 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    JfA

    Like I said in post 35, I’m in agreement with you there. Once a couple of key players were not playing or not playing well, I think the feeling must have spread to the rest of the squad that we were short and confidence would have dropped.

    The biggest mistake we made was not signing a CB in the summer. We could have been ok with Simpson at RB and we had Ba and Cisse up front for us. We needed that CB so we weren’t playing Saylor and Willo (or worse – Simpson and Perch at CB!) regularly.

  • 37 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    Spoof@34
    Absolutely spot on

  • 38 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    Also
    Not thinking team morale being on the gutter has anything to do with Ashley?
    Fcuking behave

  • 39 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:16 AM

    Jayphoto,
    Last time I looked Spurs tickets were a fiver dearer on cat A, B and C games, I’m not sure what they charge for lager but it can’t be much more than £ 4:10 for a plastic bottle and besides I think it was you that suggested that particular revenue is diverted from the club.

  • 40 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:16 AM

    TDS

    really? i wouldn’t have thought it was that much difference. Don’t see how it can be? where do they get it from as they wont have more world wide fans (and merchandise isn’t even a high earner unless your a super club like man utd or madrid). I’ll take your word though pal.

    Jay

    spurs’s owner, joe lewis, isn’t richer than ashley..very similar actually

  • 41 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:17 AM

    jayphoto

    Ben Arfa seems to really respect the club and the fans when I’ve heard him talk. He also had good words to say about Hughton and Pardew. He’s been known to kick up a fuss at clubs before so I think he’d just sulk and go if he didn’t feel loved.

    Good to hear that about Cisse too. Maybe he’s just trying too hard on the pitch…he’s been bloody unlucky the last year or so though. How many times has he hit the woodwork or had a goal wrongly chalked off for offside??

  • 42 low fell mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:19 AM

    Jfa ,been away on holiday come back on the blog and you still haven’t stopped,
    Anybody who dares say any thing positive about our great club you call a muppet.
    Again I ask, are you a Mackem

  • 43 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    Spoof

    I know what you’re saying. But then I don’t think we’ve gone backwards compared to Everton, Villa or Sunderland and really those are the 3 other clubs that should be in the top 10 with us.

    Sure, Norwich, Swansea, Southampton etc. have signed players but they will probably be back in the championship in a few seasons like Reading, QPR, Wolves and others despite them also making big signings.

  • 44 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:22 AM

    TS

    You can find the figures online easily enough. I think a lot of it is sponsorship and corporate stuff, being a regular top 10 PL club, a semi-regular European outfit and also in London.

  • 45 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:24 AM

    TADS

    Why should the players care about Ashley? They care more about the reaction of the fans, so sure if the fans are on the back of the club when they go to games then that might affect them, but most of the players aren’t as invested in the club’s history as the fans are.

  • 46 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:24 AM

    TS- Spurs are owned by Tavistock Group though, it’s headed by Joe Lewis but its made up on numerous very wealthy people. Regardless of personal wealth, it’s clear the ambitions of Spurs is similar to ours but on a bigger scale! They look to buy with a view to selling bigger in the future however they have a few differences – they paid big bucks for one of the games top up and coming managers (and backed him). And, occasionally they will step away from their transfer policy to buy older players that will firm up the team where needed (ie: parker, friedel etc) as they recognize you can’t have a team fully of 23 year olds!
    The other difference is they will gamble 15m on a player or even 20m on a player with the hope that his value becomes 25-30m.
    In a nutshell, Spurs understand you need to spend money to make money, not so sure Ashley gets this but then a successful Spurs is daniel levy’s primary responsibility whereas Ashley uses us to promote Sports Direct (fair play, he said that when he brought us, or Hall did)

  • 47 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    basically spurs are what newcastle could be if we bothered to hire people that were actually good at the jobs they have :ie manager, director of football, coaching staff, financial and revenue workers (no way is that wonga deal a good deal, it pales in price to even sunderlands deal)

  • 48 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    jayphoto

    The difference between Spurs and Newcastle is scale. We have spent decent money on the likes of MYM and Cisse recently and obviously the wages of the likes of Ben Arfa, Cabaye and Tiote aren’t small. I think our squad is at the stage now that we would rather have one £15M player rather than a couple of £5-7M players to be honest and I hope they realise that soon.

    Also, they are run well as a football club, not just a business. MA should have appointed an experienced football DoF, chairman or whatever as soon as he bought the club. It’s not Championship Manager where he can just start again or reload an old save…

  • 49 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM

    TDS @ 2 Spot on.

    People forget Douglas Hall, Freddie Shepherd and his brother (the previous regime) treated the Geordie public with contempt (Newcastle girls are dogs); laughed at ripping us off with cheap shirts; belittled our hero number 9 to Mary Poppins; and ended up killing Bambi. (SBR).

    I don’t get this bad atmosphere thing. It comes chiefly from people’s over-reaction to their unfulfilled craving for signings. Are the Wonga and the SD Arena business really so bad? Is the appointment of Joe any worse than the appointment of Pardew? Are Mikey’s beer swilling antics and bare chest hip hop and worse than the previous regime’s brothel creeping?

    The previous regime lined their own pockets to the tune of £50M through salary and dividends. As far as I’m aware, Mikey hasn’t extracted any money, not even a repayment of some the interest free loan he has made.

    Mikey has provided players that can perform and compete in the top division, and that has to be the main thing to me. I can overlook everything else. The only thing I’m finding difficult to stomach is the manager he has provided, and my patience with Mikey on that score is wearing very thin.

  • 50 Spoof // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    TDS

    Villa are recovering from the O’Neill period where very invested heavily in a small group of players who have now moved on leaving Villa with a young squad without the cash to replace those who left, but there youth policy is starting to work, they are recovering, Sunderland as you say are like us in going backwards, but Everton are as strong as they have ever been, and if Martinez is half the manager that Moyes is then they will be stronger again as the Fellaini money has been used to really strengthen their squad, we finished 5th bottom last season and by your own admition those likely to be struggling have improved whereas we and Sunderland haven’t, 5th from bottom does not give us much room for error, although I do not believe that we will struggle as much as last season, I doubt very much if we will improve that much either, certainly we will be nowhere near Everton, not unless we way over achieve again

  • 51 Quasimodo's tailor // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    Jayphoto. We signed Rob Lee from Charlton for between £600k and £750 k. Hardly what you’d call the market rate. He must have been one of our best ever bargains.

  • 52 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:31 AM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    I mostly agree with you but I’ll correct you on the taking money out thing. He did take some (about £12M I think?) out of the last financial year that accounts are available (up to June 2012 I think) and he may well have taken more this year but we don’t know yet.

    The fans are on a knife edge and I don’t think he correctly communicated his reasons for making certain decisions. Hiring then ditching the two biggest modern legends within a year wasn’t perhaps the best start…

  • 53 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    TDS
    So when you have players coming out agreeing with fans that the squad needs strengthening and needs to be pushing for regular European football only to see those pleas fall on deaf ears time after time you think it has no affect on a players morale or even commitment to the club and its cause’s?
    Come off it put down your calculator and open your eyes

    Players ex players the manager ex managers the fans all calling for some ambition, some communication some intent, there all wrong?

  • 54 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:34 AM

    jay

    true, they do the same but with more investment…greater reward but greater risk

  • 55 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:34 AM

    Spoof

    I absolutely did not say that we haven’t improved..

    The 5 signings from January will be in a much better position to contribute to this season, we’ve signed Remy on loan and we’ve got younger players (like Dummett and Sammy) pushing for the first team now. The only player who is old enough to potentially be past his peak is Colo, everyone else should still be learning and improving barring serious fitness issues (sadly like Raylor).

    I believe we have a better squad that when we finished 5th.

  • 56 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM

    @quasimodos trailer – ie: he was cheap has, but we still paid a competitive price out bidding middlesboro and sheffield wednesday for him, we paid the price that his club valued him at

  • 57 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    Low full meg,
    Firstly, I was born on the banks of the Tyne, not literally but in a South Tyneside hospital about a mile away, when I’m asked where I’m from somebody not familiar with the area, I say Newcastle not 5under1and and I pronounce Hoola hoops as it is written and not ‘ula ‘oops and have never put cheese on my chips, so no, I am not a mackem.
    Secondly,
    I never called TDsarf a muppet, I said he was worse than one.

  • 58 RonVanDam // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:37 AM

    Got a question. Players who took part in the testimonial, do they get paid for taking part?

  • 59 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM

    TDS

    where are these accounts? everyone mentions them but i cant find them anywhere

  • 60 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM

    TADS

    Who said they are wrong? Not me! We all want those things. You think fans of other clubs aren’t demanding exactly the same things? Fans and ex-players of Man Utd and Arsenal etc. were demanding more signings. Ozil slightly appeased the Arsenal fans but doesn’t address other issues that they have and they didn’t spend what many believed they would.

    You think Sunderland fans are happy with the way they have started? Villa’s biggest deal was re-signing Benteke. Hull, Cardiff and Palace look pretty woeful when it comes to quality, what about West Brom and Fulham?

  • 61 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM

    TS

    Try this one for a breakdown: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

    You can find the NUFC detailed accounts elsewhere if you really want but it’s heavy reading and I haven’t gone into detail with it.

  • 62 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM

    One of the main differences between us and other big clubs are they see the Must of having top quality back up players right through their squad. MA on the other hand has one first team and championship players to back up. But hey it saves Mash money as long as we’re not relegated.

  • 63 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM

    TDS

    Thanks, i’ve been struggling to find it and know people on both sides of the ashley argument use it and have never seen a reference

  • 64 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:45 AM

    TDs

    interesting with spuds comparison….they manage to make money from outlets we don’t even seem to look at…that shocks me.

    Ashley owns a sports shop what sells all sorts of sports gear as well as mugs, bags, coathangers, stationary, etc etc

    Thought a man who sells so much in his sports shop would have newcastle do as many things as possible to make monye

  • 65 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:45 AM

    prem wages need to fall…so much higher than other top leagues and the players aren’t that much better, if better at all

  • 66 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:46 AM

    toon kk

    I don’t think that’s fair really. Our wage bill is almost as high as it can be at the moment and we should have a good quality bench. We don’t have CL football to keep all those players happy or to be able to pay all the wages.

    What we really need is the young players coming through and pushing the first team. Really hoping the likes of Dummett, Sammy and Vuckic can break through this year.

  • 67 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    TDS
    Why are you so concerned about what other fans are thinking?

    When do Fulham have players like maldini saying there club should be playing at the highest levels?

    And all the clubs you have mentioned have strengthened, there trying to progress whether you rate the quality or not
    There owners communicate there ambitions
    Ours breaks up the seating in the ground killing the atmosphere (once again contributing to the low morale he’s turned SJP into a library)

    You always seem to draw the argument back to monies spent, that’s not what the fans are asking for
    The fans want the pride and the passion back to the club, they want intent shown
    They want Ashley to stop pissing on there heritage

  • 68 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    TS

    London based clubs are always going to be able to make more money. Business people come to London and can be entertained at a football match. First choices may be Chelsea or Arsenal but Spurs come up right behind them. That’s really significant as they pay big money for that kind of thing and it must be regular.

    I’m sure MA must be working hard to maximise the revenue, that’s what he does after all. But I think the relegation will have hit the brand pretty hard.

  • 69 low fell mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:50 AM

    SPOOF , @ 50 ,
    WE all differ in our opinions and I certainly disagree with you on Everton
    I will have a fiver bet with you that we will finish higher than Everton
    Baines will be at Man utd come next transfer window and will miss Moyes more than people think,
    Newcastle will surprise a lot of people this year.
    We have a strong defence along with a lot of pace up front.
    We may not have made signings but on the other side of the coin we have not sold any of our top players.
    ,and the lads we bought in Jan are starting to settle in.
    Onwards @ Upwards !

  • 70 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:51 AM

    TADS

    I know all these things, we’ve gone over them a thousand times.

    I want better communication too, that’s clear. The pride and the passion doesn’t come from the owner though, it comes from the fans. You’re saying that many fans have lost pride and passion for the club because of the owner? That’s sad. I care more about the players and the managers and how hard they are trying to bring success.

  • 71 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM

    Hmmm…Everton with a new manager who got a team relegated last season, without their main midfield man and with a few new players…they’re up against it too.

    Fellaini was involved in virtually every attack. Sure, Lukaku is a very good replacement in that role but they will need to gel quickly.

  • 72 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:55 AM

    TDS
    And how are you supposed to express that passion and pride at matches when Ashley keeps breaking up and moving the sections? Systematically breaking up the atmosphere at SJP, are you seriously telling me that’s not on him

  • 73 Belfast // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    I can’t see who’s going to score the goals for us this season tbh. Remy might do, but he seems to be very injury prone. Lukaku would have been a great signing for us like.

  • 74 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    Tads

    True, but that is just one aspect. We struggle with sponsorship and advertising. I accept champs league clubs will get more but the mackems got 20mil for a single season 2 years ago.

    We need to do better there. Sure sports direct signs could be replaced with brands willing to pay?

    Just a few little thing which will add up.

  • 75 one Tony Green // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    Transfer sage Spurs have a much bigger world wide support than us. I work in SE Asia and South Africa and Spurs are way more popular.

    TDS I agree 100% we cannot compete against the likes of London and Manchester clubs solely on the geography of Newcastle. Hangeland went to Fulham as his wife did not like Newcastle and wanted the bright lights of Kings Road etc

  • 76 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    TADS

    I have to admit, I don’t know much about that as I haven’t been able to get up to Newcastle for over a year now and I couldn’t even get a ticket for the match last time I was up!

    I don’t know the reasons for the sections being mixed up and unfortunately even if there were good reasons, I know there are many fans who will just see the negatives.

  • 77 roy // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    As long as Mr Ashley, sticks with losers like Pardew and Kinnear, we will just get mediocrity and bull. Ashley needs to treat NUFC, with the same ambition as the other areas of his business empire.

  • 78 Quasimodo's tailor // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    Jayphoto. What’s with the messing around with my log-in name? Don’t be so childish laddie. I ain’t getting into an argument with you, but you need to brush up on why Lee joined us so cheaply. Firstly, Charlton were desperate for money (which generally means players are available cheaper than they should be), and we had the powers of persuasion of KK, who convinced Lee that Newcastle was nearer to London than Middlesbrough (‘cos of the airport).

  • 79 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:01 PM

    Slightly tongue in cheek here…

    But could we have a “Come back Mike Ashley – all is forgiven” campaign?

    Dear Mr Ashley,

    We know that you initially enjoyed sitting with the fans and celebrating successes with a pie and a pint and we know that you are unable to do that any more. We urge you to accept and admit the cock-ups that you made with the club (especially regarding KK), set out your ambitions clearly for the club and unite with us to take Newcastle United FC to the next level.

    We promise that we will let bygones be bygones if you can share our vision and invest your time and our money into working to achieve this.

    Yours,
    NUFC Fans.

    Hmmm…fat chance?

  • 80 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:02 PM

    Low full meg,
    People spouted the same stuff about keeping our players last summer and we were very nearly relegated for not adding to the team, there’s not much of an advantage to keeping those players if they have lost interest.

  • 81 MontySmythe // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:03 PM

    I read this blog regularly and have never contributed previously but it’s good to see someone talking sense in ToonDarnSarf

    Our fans seem to be so reactive to every situation.

    Put yourself in Mike Ashley’s shoes, he’s done a great job of getting the club on a decent financial footing and I think the individual players we have are probably the best we’ve had since Bobby Robson was in charge.

    He’s made a few mistakes (I think letting Keegan walk was the biggest) but fans shouting and screaming at him every time something doesn’t work out as we’d hoped is hardly likely to make him want to invest more in the club and I’m a believer in better the devil you know (remember how happy many were when Ashley took over). The club is in reasonable shape with a first 11 that should finish comfortably in the top half (not convinced Pardew is the man to make that happen though) . He’s far more likely to invest if you make it easy for him to like us rather than hating him.

    As for getting fans involved in running the club, I think this is the worst idea, based on a meeting of one rebel fans group fund raiser a couple of years ago at the Labour Club I wouldn’t let half of them in to the ground never mind the boardroom.

    Difficult decisions need to be made and if the fans were running it we’d be bankrupt inside 12 months.

    I don’t care about stadium name change as it’ll always be known as St James’ Park to fans. (as per Gallowgate and Leazes end which have changed name but are still known by their originals)

    I don’t care who our sponsors are.

    I care that we have a bunch of decent players playing attractive football and it seems the coaching staff are trying to rectify this with less hoof ball so far this season.

    Last season was the first in 4 that we haven’t progressed but I genuinely think we were incredibly unlucky with injuries (Take Gerrard and Suarez out of Liverpool or Bale out of Tottenham and they would have struggled). We had Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Coloccini & Krul missing for long periods who are probably our best 4 players.

    Give the bloke a break as the club is an infinitely better position than it was when he took over and you never know if we’re nice to him he might be nice back. In life you reap what you sow and if we continue to reap hatred then is it any wonder we’re not receiving what we would like.

    HWTL

  • 82 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    TDS
    It was done to take away the voice
    He’s done alot to anger the fans and he doesn’t like the fact they have a 52,000 seater arena to express that in

  • 83 Munster Mag // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM

    TDS and B+B , I’m beginning to wonder what your hopes and expectations are for NUFC. I dont know why you have to call him Mikey ( if you are friends, good for you , always a good man for a loan …) but despite the fact that guys like Billson went on record as saying he would be hugely disappointed if all we signed was Remy, I still find myslef reading fellows comparing us to West Brom, Palace etc etc. Outside of Manchester (2)and Liverpool FC we can proably claim to be the biggest club in the north of england. Maldini is impressed, ex players call for ambition, and guys on this site continue to play mini accountant and tell us how well run we are, when we can probably expect that the likes mighty Swansea will perform better than us again this season, unless europe hurts them. Where’s the ambition guys – and please dont tell me that I’m trying to bankrupy NUFC by doing a Leeds…..

  • 84 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    TADS

    That’s sad. But surely the fans can just adjust and find new people to join in with? I know this was a problem years ago (before MA) with the lack of a singing corner.

  • 85 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    @quasimodos tailer – aye sorry pal, compelete accident! misread your name, im on the iphone on the train! No offence intended!
    Yea definately agreeing, Lee was an absolute steal, my point was that we still offered what other teams offered for him and ultimately what charlton wanted for him, whereas now we’re offering a couple mil less than what teams want and what other teams are offereing

  • 86 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    Also some need to stop looking at in paper and stop discounting the human factor
    On paper we may well have a strong squad, stronger than the season we finished 5th
    But the season we finished 5th we had new players who had arrived after being assured of the clubs European ambitions

    Like the fans they have seen those ambitions downsized, promises unfulfilled and the tune of the club very much changed

    The players seem as dejected and detached as the fans

  • 87 Nufc-83 // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 11:08 AM

    @TDS Passion in the lads we’ve got now, i wouldn’t add ben arfa into that! He plays for himself and himself only! Great talent, but he would leave in a heartbeat if the right offer came in! It won;t though as he’s far too selfish to play for a top team and his stats don’t lie! Hes fantastic going past people, but his short passing can be woeful! He has zero vision and widely lashes at chances! Some go into the top corner granted but more often than not they fly out of play!
    I’d add Cisse into the lads with passion! Met him a while back and the lads truly in love with the club! he speaks like a newcastle fan! He’s a really open guy! Doesn’t get on with our fearless leader Pardew at all though, seemed to really dislike him

    What a load of rubbish if ben afra went to a top team he would be 10x the player he is for us and probably outshine a number of the top teams players for the following reasons:
    – When he plays for us he is often double or triple marked due to the fact that teams are not worried about are other players – at a top team they couldn’t do this as the other world class players would rip them apart.
    – At a top team they would have strikers that actually make good runs and provide movement and space- for us our sts are generally stationary or offside and so he ends up shooting.

    I am not saying ben afra is god and would be the best player in the world at a top club but when he tries so hard in such a poor side then gets blamed for losing the ball or shooting it annoys the hell out of me.

  • 88 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    one tony

    Fair play pal, just going off what I have seen around europe. Guessed it would be similar world wide.

    Wonder what spur’s following will be without bale???

  • 89 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    tailor*

  • 90 Rotonda heights // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    Roy

    I think ash has only been successful in retail. He tried getting into films with the same results as he’s running NUFC.

  • 91 Quasimodo's tailor // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    Jayphoto. No problem. Enjoy your journey.

  • 92 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    TDS
    How? It’s moved and broken up all the time
    I believe it was even bought up in the last club meeting with fans and they were presented with a scripted answer that really wasn’t an answer at all

  • 93 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM

    Munster Mag

    Wow…talk about twisting what I’ve been saying…

    1 – when I compared our transfer window with the likes of West Brom and Palace, I also compared it to Arsenal and Man Utd. You missed off this bit…
    2 – 4th biggest club in the north of England…maybe…pretty much on a par with Everton these days. Makes us 7th/8th biggest club in England
    3 – Anyone would be impressed with the ground yesterday, but people used to be impressed by playing at The Dell.
    4 – It’s sad when fans like you are already writing off a very good squad and assuming that Swansea and the likes will finish above us
    5 – I am also on record as saying that just signing Remy is a below par transfer window
    6 – I want ambition like the rest of it. What’s your point? I want what is best for the club, just because I’m not one of a dozen groups calling for MA to leave who frankly can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery, doesn’t mean that I don’t want ambition and change.

  • 94 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM

    @nufc83 – issue with Ben Arfa is never that he gives the ball away! Its his decision making! And his composure most of the time in front of goal! So many times i see him not choose the pass when its a better option or blaze over from 8/9 yards! Thats what sets him apart from world class players!
    In england, ben arfa style players are really uncommon, but in france, players that can go round 3 or 4 players each time are much more common! Boudebouz would be a good example of this, Thauvin another! For the talent Ben Arfa possesses he could be twice the player he is with application! If you speak french (not sure if you do or not) and could read his interviews in France that don’t always get published in the UK, he does nothing but talk about other teams! Be very interested to see if he has any interest in signing this new contract he’s being offered! Think he’ll go the way of enrique personally

  • 95 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM

    Rotunda,
    If he wanted to get back into films, I think he would make a very good Oliver Hardy.

  • 96 roy // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:17 PM

    Rotonda, if only the man would drop the Howard Hughes act and lay his cards on the table as to what his vision and hopes are for NUFC. All i see in Pardew and Kinnear is no ambition one of them relegated us and the other had a bloody good try last season to relegate us.

  • 97 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:17 PM

    TADS

    That’s exactly the kind of question that the club needs to address and address properly. There’s no reason at all that they couldn’t do that.

  • 98 Rotonda heights // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:18 PM

    KK & SBR didn’t seem to have any problem attracting top players to come to the North East, so it’s not necessarily a geographical thing. If you were a top player would you sign for Pardew and JFK?

  • 99 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM

    Rotonda
    Maybe he was trying the wrong film market?
    He’d be very successful in the adult market, he’s used to shafting people

  • 100 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM

    jayphoto

    So you may as well slag off Gazza, Ginola, Robert, Asprilla and others with that argument. They could all have been better if they had more application and focus. But they were all damn good players and so is Ben Arfa.

  • 101 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM

    TDS
    There is a reason, he doesn’t give a sh*t
    For me there will never be an appeasement whilst he’s the club, he has no respect for the club or the fans and imo vice versa

  • 102 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM

    Rotonda

    KK and SBR were managing in an era when:
    1 – Chelsea and Man City were not stupidly rich
    2 – we were there or thereabouts the CL places
    3 – the owners had the money (or the desire to put us into debt) to pay huge wages and transfer fees
    4 – we already had very good squads to add to (as I believe we do now)

  • 103 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:23 PM

    TADS

    There has to be a reason though. He doesn’t just do it to f off the fans.

    I know some fans (like you) have reached the end of the line with Ashley, but it’s pointless just banging on the same drum.

    If he doesn’t sell up, are you just going to invest all your energy into demanding that he does? Or are you also going to put some energy into making things better with him as owner?

  • 104 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM

    TADS

    There are obviously some fans who have reached the end of the line with Ashley, including yourself it seems. But there must be some reason other than just to mess with the fans.

    So are you going to invest all of your energy into demanding he leaves even if he has no intention to? Or are you going to invest some energy into making things better with him as owner?

  • 105 roy // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:26 PM

    There is no question we have a decent squad its the man who puts the round pegs in square holes Pardew that concerns me.

  • 106 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:28 PM

    you can get top players to the north east…you get top players in russia

    each player is different, some combination of location, money, club status, league playing in, ambition…each player is different.

  • 107 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:28 PM

    TDS
    By all means tell me your master plan to open a line of communication seeing as no fan group has been able to in six years

    He’ll be gone the second his money’s paid back
    Of energy can spent in finding a way to make that happen or make him see he will never get his full investment back all the while he allows the club to stagnate then great

  • 108 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    TDsarf,
    I think it’s a little unfair for you to tell the rest of the blog that these groups you’ve been contacting couldn’t organize a pi $$ up in a brewery when they are working very hard to get something done.

  • 109 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    @tds never said HBA Wasn’t a damn good player, he is! To be honest in terms of skill and technique, i’ve only seen a couple at NUFC better, beardsley, and perhaps from what i’ve seen on videos Tony Green? Just saying it’s frustrating as he could and should be a namestay in the french team (hes second in talent to only ribery for me) and be talked about in the same breath as players like suarez and rooney! Its down to him that he’s not as he’s got everything!

  • 110 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    Roy
    You could argue pardew is a square peg
    He has limited managerial capabilities and is not really suited to a club of this stature
    Yet he gets the blame over the man who’s put him in this position

  • 111 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:41 PM

    TDS

    The previous regime wasted tens of millions (£30M?) on signing the likes of Owen, Luque, and Boumsong. Can you imagine if Mikey did that just to get players in and keep fans happy?

    This is how I see it and I’m happy to stand corrected. In fact, I’d like to be proved wrong if I learn something and gain a better understanding.

    If Mikey extracts money to repay some of his interest free loan I would argue that that is a good thing for the club. I have been discussing with B&B the issue of Mikey being NUFC and NUFC being Mikey with all the money in the same pocket. I think this is an important point because it goes to the question of how you judge Mikey and what he is doing. There are a lot of misconceptions. If B&B is right, then I’m off beam and so I’m keen to hear his views until it’s bottomed out.

    I’ve been discussing with Ibiza the value of the club for the same reasons. He thinks I’m not getting his point about returns on investment, but I’m just trying to establish the basics first. (Not easy on mobile. I’m on pc now.)

    The club has long had large liabilities as a result of the stadium works and player purchases in instalments. Freddie Shepherd effectively borrowed from future income for the pleasure of the then paying public. (Mikey doesn’t do that; he responsibly pays up front, investing within our means and not mortgaging the future.)

    After Mikey bought the club for £130M, he discovered that he had overpaid as a result of these unknown liabilities. If had done due diligence, he would have realised the previous regime had been borrowing from the future (us now) and he would have discovered the instalment arrangements. He would also have discovered that some of the debt had to be repaid immediately on change of ownership. Thus, the club wasn’t even worth anything near the £130M that Mikey paid for it (perhaps nearer £100M but that’s just my supposition; co-incidentally the difference of £30M being the amount wasted on the likes of Owen, Luque and Boumsong). But the club’s value was always going to be the same whether Mikey had discovered the liabilities or not. The value of the club itself, the thing we’re concerned about, did not change one jot on the change of ownership and I wonder whether some people fully appreciate this?

    The loan from Mikey is a liability of the club. If the club can get rid of it, it’s great for the club. Of course, instead of lending the club money, which was essential to help it carry on its normal business, Mikey could have given the money to the club. If he had done this his wealth would have been more or less the same, because he owns the club and it would have been £100M better off. When the club repays Mikey that loan from annual profits, it is not detrimental to the club in the same way that it would be if Mikey was taking salary or dividends like the previous regime did in big measure. In many ways, it is financially beneficial. The Hall/Shepherd extractions hit the club’s balance sheet, Mikey’s doesn’t.

    B&B – The club is a separate legal entity. Thus, if Mikey writes off the loan, our club is so much richer. The balance sheet is £100M to the good and balance sheets, including cash held, are extremely important to the strength of a business. If he wrote off the loan, NUFC would be worth say £200M and not £100M to a new purchaser. That is why I don’t agree that everything is in the same Mikey pocket sloshing around.

  • 112 Nufc-83 // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:41 PM

    Jayphoto fair enough i just think if he was in the right team he would be mentioned in the same breath as suarez, rooney etc. Imagine if he only had to skip past one player rather than the 3 he generally has to beat for us. His decision making is not the best i would agree but he is still a top class player and could slot into any team in the world.

  • 113 Scottiedog // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:42 PM

    We need a new manager and NOT a new owner.

    Personally I think we should make an approach for Zola as his game would really suit our squad and he is used to working with Limited budgets.

  • 114 Nufc-83 // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM

    B&B why are you calling him Mikey is he a personal friend its turning my stomach!

  • 115 toonarmydownsouth // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:46 PM

    Scottie
    And who appoints the manager? Who kept him on in the summer seemingly happy enough?

  • 116 Jail for Ashley // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:48 PM

    tads,
    The reason Ashley gave Pardew an eight year contract was becuase he thought that if he could achieve a top five finish with a threadbare squad then he should be able to keep us in the PL without any more substantial investment, it very nearly went horribly wrong.

  • 117 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:50 PM

    blackley

    Good points made there. I would say that just because the club is debt free won’t increase it’s value to the same value of the debt…not necessarily anyway. Which I think is what you said.

    The only two things I disagree with are the players shepherd bought…might not have been good and he was ripped off but did it with the best intentions of the club as a playing side, maybe not financial side. These players failed but many he bought succeeded too. Just easier to spot failures when a lot of money is wasted.

    The second issue was paying over many years….if you can do a deal with a club so you pay this transfer fee over years it makes it easier to buy as spreading over time. Means some years if you need a few players you can spread it over the time instead of all upfront (or missing out on one/two leaving yourself short). If you pay the other club over time it may (or may not) be interest free….club to club agreement not done through a bank (like loaning money for players)

  • 118 WWSBRD // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:50 PM

    I’d rather have Pardew than Ashley, no point curing a symptom and ignoring the disease

  • 119 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    Imagine if we’d have had Graham Carr scouting the players backed with the money spent by Shepherd and SBR managing them……
    Frustrating to have seen all the elements for a world class club just at different times in the last 15 years!
    Would have loved to have seen HBA on the right in KK’s team, or Cabaye in the centre for SBR’s side or even Shearer or Ferdinand up top for us in this side!

  • 120 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM

    scottie

    plenty good managers we could go out and get, zola being one.

    The thing is managers are always less of a risk than players, much easier to adapt mentally (tactically) to a league than physically like a player.

    So with some good scouting and thorough interviews no reason we couldn’t find a good manger to take us on.

  • 121 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:53 PM

    TDS
    We have a decent squad, most agree with that we have a few good back up players but you have to agree most wouldn’t be even near a bench at a top club.
    I know we wouldn’t attract alot of world class players as they want CL football. MA wouldn’t pay their wages never mind buy them even if the club could afford it.
    My point is a little more investment and our club would move to the next level (top half) better results would push the value of every player right up.

  • 122 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 12:59 PM

    NUFC – 83
    Is that your best criticism and sum contribution?

    I’m ambivalent about the man. I don’t like him as a person, but I don’t dislike him as I do Pardew. As long as we have a good squad that we can afford to run and we’re in the top division without fear of relegation, I’m happy enough. If we don’t have that, I’ll dislike him. So “Mikey” is a name that you can take either way, used in friendly terms or used sarcastically, and so suits me.

    BTW – I was shortened to B&B on the other blog. BandB, who gets B&B, doesn’t like to be confused with me.

  • 123 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:01 PM

    Key to a new manager, for us especially is that he believes in a philosophy that fits our players currently in the roster, that he believes in a style of play the fans want to see (attacking) and that he is happy to work with the blue print the club has set up (bringing through young cheap players and turning them into assets!
    I actually thought the club missed a trick not moving for Rene Girard in the summer as he for me would tick all these boxes
    Zola for me struggled when under pressure at West Ham, and the pressure at newcastle would be higher! Theres managers out there though, Southampton play great stuff under pocchetino and swansea took laudrup, both managers that earn smallish wages and that noone was really willing to take a chance on!
    The thing is, under our current set up, a manager doesn’t need to understand transfers or the european leagues etc, really we are just in need of a top coach and tactician!This is the way they coach in germany and holland so for me it would make sense appointing from there as the managers are used to working this way! One person i think will make a fine manager is Dennis Bergkamp current #2 at ajax! Think theres less risk for us in appointing an unproven young manager as we’ll still have graham carr buying the players (or choosing them at least) and dare i say it jokingly, JFK’s always there for guidance…. lol

  • 124 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:02 PM

    TADS

    I’m not saying I have a master plan. I hope this fans forum can get some more answers and this is my biggest problem with the club. We just need a spokesman who can tell us honestly about what is happening.

    He will get his investment back eventually. He just may have to wait a few years of taking our profits before someone will pay for it. I really agree with the policy of time4change to actually try and showcase the club to new owners. I’d rather the protest was a positive angle rather than a negative.

    “Ashley out” is a negative.

  • 125 WWSBRD // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM

    We are without fear of relegation? News to me

  • 126 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM

    JfA

    I know they are trying to get things done and they’ve been trying for a hell of a long time.

    Maybe time4change will be different but the single biggest problem with these groups is just that. GROUPS.

    There needs to be one group speaking for all of the fans. Each group having a few hundred people wanting slightly different things to the other group is pointless. Remember the Judean People’s Front in Monty Python and the Holy Grail? It’s a bit like that…

    No significant protests, no significant marches. Maybe this new group will be something different but every one I’ve seen beforehand has been pretty useless at doing what they were formed to do.

  • 127 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    Erm…why do you call him Mikey? I’ve never heard anyone else do that.

    NUFC’s money is NUFC’s money, it’s not MA’s and clearly MA’s money is not NUFC’s or he wouldn’t have loaned the club money, he’d have given it.

    I don’t think any rational person will say that MA doesn’t have the right to get his investment back, he clearly does. But in the meantime, some communication with the fans would be nice regarding his plans.

  • 128 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:11 PM

    toon kk

    We are a top 10 club in my eyes and I think we’ll finish there. But like I said, we’re already spending about the limit on wages.

    It’s pointless saying that our back-up players wouldn’t make the bench for one of the top 6 clubs because we’re not one of the top 6 clubs, we’ve got to work with what we have.

    We have some fans complaining that we don’t have a stronger bench and others complaining that the youth players aren’t given enough of a chance. Can’t have it both ways…

    The likes of Streete, Haidara, Dummett, Vukcic, Campbell, Sammy and Bigi will hopefully get chances this season.

  • 129 mattyNUFC // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:11 PM

    Tdarnsarf

    You are incorrigible.

  • 130 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:16 PM

    TS

    Thanks for your reply.

    On your first point, I agree. If you put £100M into a company you own 100%, the value of that company doesn’t necessarily increase by £100M. However, it will increase to somewhere near it. I was only talking in broad brush terms. I could have went into it (dotted the i’s) but I think my post was long enough. But your remark does help further to highlight the point I am trying to make. The reason it won’t increase the club’s value by the same amount is that the present arrangement, whereby the club is funded by loan, is far more flexible for legal and tax purposes. That’s because it’s more difficult to get money out of a company, a separate legal entity, than to put money in, which goes to the crux of my discussion with B&B. It’s more flexible for the current owner and so too for any new owner. A new owner would therefore be willing to pay for the current set up.

    On your second point, as I recall, Shepherd was reluctant to splash the cash, and only did so reluctantly after massive fan pressure, similar to that we see now.

    On your third point, by borrowing against the future, you’re borrowing from fans of the future. It’s widely condemned in other circles (pension/ economics). It is especially reckless in football.

  • 131 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:17 PM

    TDS
    Do you think MA is doing enough to push us forward? Bearing in mind were nearly relegated last season.

  • 132 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM

    toon kk

    No. Of course I don’t.

    He’s focussing on getting some of his investment back asap whereas I’d rather he spent the club’s money on moving us up the table, turned us into a top team again and was able to get his investment back by selling the club for £250M+

  • 133 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:25 PM

    WWSBRD

    I started fearing relegation in November last year and have done ever since. The solution, however, is to get rid of Pardew because he is the problem not the squad that Mikey has provided. It’s a much more achievable, and sensible solution than getting rid of Mikey.

  • 134 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:27 PM

    TDS
    Then why do you disagree with the majority of fans saying he’s doing the best he can? When we all know he could do a little more for the club.

  • 135 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:31 PM

    Blackley…Hello. Not sure where we left off exactly…somewhere near despair perhaps :)

    In your post today about our recent conversations, you hint that we are in fact talking about different things in value and investment, but you wanted to cover the basics first.

    Can I ask that we drop the basics for a minute then and work on what I was trying to discuss, which is why would Ashley suddenly want to leave once the “loan” aspect has been repaid and his investment therefore reduced?

    I have a rough understanding of accounting, but it’s rough as I have no desire to know the ins and outs.

    Do you think that the loan can be repaid and if so, once it’s paid off, do you see Mikey jumping ship and why?

  • 136 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:31 PM

    TDS

    Where Mikey missed a trick this summer was in failing to pick up some bargain buys or make some astute loan signings. It’s no wonder fans are frustrated.

  • 137 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    TDSarf…I think you mean Monty Pythons Life Of Brian.

    “Only joking, crucifixion really” :)

  • 138 toonaids // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM

    just gonna mention that i cant beleive we packed out 50,000 for a testimonial to a bench keeper, unbelievable commitment from our fans.

    i say this as i went to ferdinands testimonial, won tickets through work (bt spurt like) didnt wanna go but all expenses paid and for a player, captain, england international and medal winner the turn out and display was utter shocking. their waas more passion in the sevilla side who beat them and they must have treat this as a pre season warm up. the stadium was only about 25-30 thousand full and they probably won tickets like me.

    so it does show how good our fans are.

    BOOM!

  • 139 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:36 PM

    toon kk

    Err…at no point at all have I said that he’s doing the best he can for the club.

  • 140 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:36 PM

    Blackley @ 134…That’s where I have come to the conclusion that he really simply just doesn’t give a monkeys.

    He has shown that when he wants to, he can get the business done and players in…at good value for money to add.

    It seems he has chosen to just wait and see. Given the turmoil and the fact they said they would be active, why hasn’t he?

    I’m not a supporter of spending silly money just to appease fans, but surely there is some middle ground rather than this “I am Mike Ashley, I will do it my way and you will all simply just wait and deal with it”.

    If his intentions are good, why make it so hard for everyone? I just don’t follow that aspect of him other than he just doesn’t care and wants to run things as cheaply as possible whilst staying in the league for the riches that are available.

  • 141 WWSBRD // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    Blackley
    So we aren’t without fear of relegation then?

    And I disagree that would be a case of papering over cracks imo ‘Mikey’ would just hang the next manager out to dry as well and I can’t bring myself to have sympathy for Kinnear

  • 142 toonaids // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    ps man u fans arent real fans, adopted mugs, glory supporters, id rather have our fans put in our money and have our success, whether we go down or not, personally enjoyed our championship season.

  • 143 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:38 PM

    A bit of creative “journalism” for you TDSarf :)

    “ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:36 PM”

    “toon kk”

    “he’s doing the best he can for the club.”

    Shocking stuff…

  • 144 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:40 PM

    blackley

    I agree borrowing money for players might not be the best thing to do financially, especially if it is a consistent plan.

    I wasn’t talking about borrowing though. If you agree a 10mil fee if makes no difference in total payment if you hand the cash over upfront or if you spread it over 3 years (providing the selling club will accept this deal with no interest or a higher fee if spread). Still all the clubs money, none borrowed from bank either way.

  • 145 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM

    Ibizatoon

    Good point! Not sure how I got those muddled up!

    I’m a very naughty boy…

  • 146 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:42 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    Of course that was bad but when he demands such good deals on transfers, it’s obvious that we’re going to miss out sometimes.

    And why do you call Mike Ashley Mikey?

  • 147 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:43 PM

    Oh! Could have fooled me.
    But I will say your great for this blog, you get a lot of interesting topics going and people need someone to have a good moan with.

  • 148 toonaids // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    ive downloaded an app onmy phone call football manager and i am in mass amounts of debt with an alright squad and still hovering mid table in league 2, so just goes to show you doesnt

    mugs!

  • 149 toon kk // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    Last post for TDS

  • 150 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    Sorry, yeah I forgot that I believe that Mike Ashley is the NUFC messiah, Pardew is a tactical genius, JFK is the glue that fits everything together and the fans are just whingers and moaners.

    Sorry, I almost forgot to be a ridiculous parody of myself.

    I don’t want success because I’m actually Mike Ashley’s accountant and I’m raking it in from screwing over the fans.

    Honest…

  • 151 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    TDSarf…Not the messiah then? :)

  • 152 Coach // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:46 PM

    It’s fun to read so many different views about Mike Ashley’s finances, the diversity of views is amazing. Not always sensible, but amazing. Maybe I shouldn’t add my thoughts, but I will anyway.

    I would be surprised if Ashley hasn’t had a significant number of discussions about selling the club and almost certainly more than one offer. We can therefore be pretty certain that he knows what the market thinks it’s worth and equally certain that he wants more than is on offer.

    He could accept a low offer and write off some of his investment. If you think that’s likely, you haven’t been paying attention.

    He could invest and hope that greater success increases the value of the business. There is no sign of that.

    He can use trading profits and profits from player sales to pay back his loan up to the point where the amount he needs to sell the club for meets the amount the market is willing to pay for it.

    I think he knows how much that is and my guess is that it will take several years to get there.

    The good news from my view is that he won’t willingly let us be relegated, he know how much that cost him and we know how he reacted last January when it looked like it might happen again.

  • 153 Novocastrian66 // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:46 PM

    Transfer Sage. Zola wasn’t exactly a success at West Ham. As for Ashley; the boycott brigade have to find a way to engage Ashley and get him to share a common goal. The “get out of our club” attitude will not achieve this this will only alienate him further.
    According to the BBC Newcastle United is the cheapest place to watch Premier League football. This is a good thing, right?
    Not everything Ashley does is bad.

  • 154 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM

    toon kk

    I feel that I’m some kind of proxy for Mike Ashley for people to have a go at sometimes! I’m really not a fan of the way he’s run the club I promise you! I just don’t agree with reactionary comments and actions that actually aren’t in the best interest of the club.

    If the best option was mid-table finishes for 3 years and then pushing on I’d take it. I just wish we knew the plan.

    MA has been a decent owner from a business perspective but shocking from the fans’.

  • 155 Nufc-83 // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:50 PM

    Mikey ftw :)

  • 156 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:51 PM

    TDS

    I do see your points a lot of the time, not entirely in agreement but do agree with aspects of them.

    I think that for an ‘ashley supporter’ as you get called you are quite middle ground, not too far one way or the other.

    The only thing I really disagree with is that ‘Ashley out’ wont help. My analogy a few days ago stands I believe. Say NUFC is a house, if that house is not on the market and you don’t employ an estate agent to look to sell it then it’s unlikely you will get a good offer on the house. But if you actively look to sell by hiring people, like estate agents, to find a buyer it becomes much easier to sell.

    All people do this, houses, cars, companies etc….all employ people to sell when they want to and it does a good job of getting it sold.

    Buy saying ‘Ashley Out’ and campaigning it may, thats may not definitely happening, encourage him to find a buyer…which will speed the process of him leaving up.

    Hopefully somebody willing to spend, maybe a super rich owner (fingers crossed) will buy it…or maybe a venkeys.

    So the protest MAY get him to sell and MAY get us a better owner. A couple key variables but whether the process of selling takes 1 or 10 years we could still get a good or bad owner, we simply wont know until they come in.

  • 157 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    novo

    claims you can get tickets for 15 quid….where? cheapest for league is category C and lowest priced seats are 27 quid…hardly as cheap as they claim. Those 15 pound tickets are the exception not the rule….but still it’s good compared to a lot of clubs, which i agree is a good things he has done.

    I didn’t mean Zola as the best option, just meant if we scout a manager as well as our players we could find a good one i’m sure.

    As for ashley out….see my above comment. I just think he never seems to tell us straight, or get somebody else to, and we always seem to get our hopes built up by what we are promised then it isn’t delivered.

  • 158 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    blacklie and brownlie—— mikey ???????? it’ll be joey next !

  • 159 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:56 PM

    TS

    I have no problem with what time4change have said. They want to encourage MA to move on and want to advertise the club to new owners. Previous campaigns have just had the “Ashley out” attitude and virtually anything was better. That has been my problem the whole time.

    If your neighbour is a pain in the arse and you want them to move, just shouting at them to leave won’t get them to move. Maybe talking to them and helping them to get the property on the market might though. He’s not going to sell for less than the club is worth to him so we need a new owner, not just getting rid of the current one.

  • 160 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM

    Mikey, Joey and Pardy…weren’t they in The Monkees?

  • 161 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 1:58 PM

    TDS

    yeh but we can’t just have him leave and nobody come in..somebody must own the club.

    So therefore buy shouting, ashley out…it’s the same as ashley sell up and let somebody else come in. Just much snappier and catchier to shout ashley out than that sentence haha.

  • 162 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:01 PM

    Ibiza – I can only guess what Mikey will do. I honestly believe he loves the idea of being the big fish with all the power and control and of being owner of such a great “toy”, especially if it goes hand in hand with his business interests – perfect. Hey, I and most others would love to be the owner of a football club, but especially NUFC.

    Has he been put off over time? Has it turned sour for him on one or all fronts? I still think he would hate to lose power and control, but perhaps he see Rangers as a great substitute?

    He doesn’t seem to be serious about investing in youth, or copying the German model, which suggests he’s not in it for the long term.

    As for the financial position, he just needs to steady the ship and make NUFC look not unattractive if he wants to sell. He may have already done that.

    It’s widely felt that there’s no real money to be made in football other than for footballers. Clubs are the play things of the rich, and they try to compete with each other by burning their money. For those guys, it’s like comparing dicks. The bigger the dick, the better. NUFC is real big and has the potential to be massive.

    Mikey sees the way to make money is to make a turn on player transfers. Nothing wrong with that as playing at SJP is a great draw to top aspiring players. However, I think the club is now sufficiently stable that Mikey could sell and cut his losses.

    If you had £100M to invest to make a return, you wouldn’t put it into a football club, would you? I could think of 100 other places I’d rather invest first.

    Bear in mind, all of this is played out against a fluctuating picture of not only Mikey’s personal wealth, but also the team’s success and failure. His plans may change from month to month, if not day to day.

    The loan could be repaid over a number of years with careful stewardship, but I don’t think it’s about repaying the loan. I reckon the loss on his investment is relatively small and inconsequential. Has anyone attempted to quantify it?

    What do you reckon?

  • 163 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:01 PM

    TDS…

    “Hey hey we are the cockneys, and people say we’re cocking around, say we’re not busy signing, that we’re going down”

  • 164 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:02 PM

    novocastrians66 — you reckon newcastle is the cheapest place to watch football? — i suppose you get what you pay for. If you want cheap tatty sports clobber , shop at SD . do you see a pattern forming here ?

  • 165 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:03 PM

    Stuart

    Howay man, it’s “Jokey”.

  • 166 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    TDS @158 I reckon their the same guys. just split the band up but kept the name!!

  • 167 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    I just feel in the mood to put another myth to bed it was not the girls of the northeast that they called dogs it was the girls of North east sex trade they were taking a pop at the lap dancers were dogs in comparison to the high life of the Costa del sol and the Mary Poppins was an answer to a leading question as to what sort of lifestyle Shearer led and the Mary Poppins was to explain he was a clean living respectable family man as opposed to the two seedy gents talking to the fancy dress degrade and it was explained to me that the party of Arabs looked more like a bunch of lads out on a stag do and really the only bad thing was shooting Bambie.

  • 168 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    I keep reading people equating repaying the loan as essential to Mikey’s exit strategy, in the sense of getting his hands on the money and recovering his losses. What’s repaying the loan got to do with it? It’s all about making profit.

    The profit could be left in NUFC’s bank account or it could be used to buy players. If annual profit of £10M is used to buy a player worth £10M, the club is still worth £10M more than it was before the profit was made. In theory Mikey could sell NUFC for roughly £10M more, all things being equal.

  • 169 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    Fatman

    Even your explanation of what they were saying in that brothel (or was it a high class night club?) would be enough to fine them, if they were a player, for bringing the club into disrepute.

    What about laughing at ripping off the fans with cheap shirts? What’s the correct version?

  • 170 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    Blackley…Thanks for the response, I hope sometime in the future we can enter in to a debate that doesn’t result in us both having to type so much…perhaps “Ashley Out” isn’t so bad after all…it’s simpler :)

    All any of us can do is guess. Even if we were told what they were doing or what the plans were we’d still have to guess as there is a clear lack of trust. I don’t really disagree or have any major objections to your thoughts on the situation…all plausible for me.

    It just worries me, that it seems a few people are playing the whole, it’s okay, we’ll tread water for a little while longer, he’s clearing up the mess and when he can he’ll be off.

    He may well do, but I am far from convinced.

    Even if it doesn’t prove to make money. Can it break even, stay in the PL and not prove too much work for Ashley? Whilst SDs rise has gone hand in hand with the economic troubles, it has also coincided with his ownership of the club. It is a great advertising board for SD and I’m just not sure why he would want to give it up.

    Would I invest in NUFC to make a profit? No :) Do I think that’s why he purchased it in the first place? Directly no, but as you say, it probably seemed a fun idea at the time and I honestly believe the main reason was always to show off SD…how long did it take for the signs to go up in SJP? Genuine question as I can’t remember.

  • 171 toonking // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    blackley
    I can’t think of even 1 manager at the minute that could make things any different.
    the fact pardew has not once spoken for over two weeks shows he like the players and fans are such a low spirit.

    the fact he has not walked out yet is one thing I think shows he has got passion for trying to help this team.

    managers like laudrup would not come as this would be their first chance to show signs of decent enough to manage in the biggest league. so no way do they want a club with a boardroom that has such a bad rep as they know that fans are very stressful ATM so any bad result could just make the manager get targeted.

    managers like poyet would be coming from championship which to most fans is a weaker league so the pressure would be really high because he knows that if he starts getting a bad run then he will be the first thing that is to be blamed for them. so the worst thing for him would be a board who has showed very little evidence of backing with 4 other managers already shearer KK hughton and pardew.

    then you have great managers who basically will never ever come to us unless we got a city type owner as they only want CL regs which we are certainly not the only reason SBR was manager is he was a passionate local himself.

    finally you have international managers but these days international football is nothing like club football one is all about youth development the other is all about money, spending power and wages a lot of managers have already show the difference ie macclarean decent with his clubs awful when he was England manager cappello had a great club record yet was picking the wrong players all the time sven tried a football club but was not given that long before he was sacked. their are very few who can do both club and country management

  • 172 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:23 PM

    blackley

    the club should not really make a profit i don’t think…or not for a sustained period of 2-3 years.

    All money made should be reinvested whether its wages, players, coaching staff, upgrades to facilities, etc etc. (i’ll include paying off ashley’s loan in that as well)

    the only money made should be put away for future developments and it should all have a plan, not just to sit there for nothing.

    Would also be nice to take the 80 mil TV money, stick it all on 32red and hope it comes in then go on a spending spree haah

  • 173 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    Blackley…I think it stems from the knowledge that Ashley was apparently trying to sell the club but couldn’t.

    It is widely believed that a big part of the issue is that on top of what he thought he was paying, there was these debts he hadn’t noticed (or bothered looking for).

    All comes down to his intentions and what the individual values his assets at.

    I get what you’re saying. Whether the cash is held by the NUFC accounts or goes to pay off the “loan” its all relative. One counteracts the other and you’re still left at square one.

    All comes down to then, what is the actual value or what does Ashley value the club at?

  • 174 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    it could also be that Ashley wants the loans back to fund the purchase of rangers in a more underhand way he might want both clubs even though the rules only allow up to 10% in a second club so you could own 10% of one club but still only 10% in a second. and don’t look for any sense in uefa. he could get a friend to pretend to buy rangers for him.

  • 175 wolfshead@toon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    blackley

    are you saying ash has a button mushroom dick? :-)

  • 176 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    ibiza —– but surely if ash bought the club to show off SD , then profit was was the main reason for purchasing the club ? i know you said you dont think itwas a direct reason why he bought it , but if his intention was to make SD global – i think it was !

  • 177 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    stuart…I think I worded that badly, as what you said was exactly what I meant.

    I meant did he buy the club to make money directly from NUFC profits? Maybe, but not as easy target.

    I think he bought the club to advertise SD and make more money through that venture.

    So indirectly making profit from NUFC.

  • 178 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    Ibiza

    So, so much is made of this advertising SD thing. I really don’t think it’s worth that much to have your company’s logo plastered over SJP. The bigger money is on the shirt.

    More importantly, Mikey really wants “his” company’s logo plastered all over SJP, by far the simplest thing to do would be to pay for it, just like other companies do. It might cost no more than £5M a season, probably a lot less, and headache free.

    What I can’t understand, and nobody yet has answered, is why Mikey is not billing SD, as he owns 100% of NUFC and only two thirds of SD. On the face of it, it would be in his own interests do so. Is it even certain that SD are not paying?

  • 179 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    Ibizatoon

    i think your spot on in your assumption about Ashley. he did not look at the books as he has done on many occasions, he might of put over £140m in to pay down debt but at the same time he’s had £100m of free promoting of his company. so he takes back his £140m has a club worth a lot more than the £134m he paid for it and his £20m free adds. this thick clump who did not notice the debt no longer looks thick, as hes milking the cow from both sides.

  • 180 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:37 PM

    Wolfs

    If I could find an emoticon, I’d laugh. I might call him “Mikey” but that doesn’t mean I know what he keeps in his Calvin Creams.

  • 181 Rotonda heights // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    toonking

    Pardew hasn’t walked cos he’d miss out on an alleged 10.5M pay off. He’s stupid but not that stupid. Let’s be honest if we were a big club JFK and Pardew wouldn’t be anywhere near us.

    Not all managers are high maintenance. I think a lot could do a job with the squad we have. A front 3 of Ben Arfa, Cisse and Remy isn’t to be sniffed at.

    As for Poyet coming from the championship, Pardew was on the dole having been sacked by a league 1 club
    and just happened to know a casino owner.

  • 182 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    ibiza —- thanks for clearing that one up .i thought thats what you meant !

  • 183 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    blackley

    Maybe he thought he could put the initial money is NUFC, get it operating at a profit, which we now do and then get free advertising, when no longer needed sell up and get your money back…or even a small profit.

    Sports direct has grown many times over since he bought us, only big sports chain to do so….it gets a lot of publicity, a lot of TV time. Shirts would make more sense, and when wonga only give 6mil a year, i’m surprised he hasn’t tried it.

    Maybe thats down to fan opinion? doesn’t want a total revolt of his hands.

  • 184 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:42 PM

    fatman

    How is it free advertising when Mikey could have NUFC, a company he owns outright, charge SD, a company which he doesn’t own outright, the full market rate? Surely, he is losing out personally on the deal? If SD pay NUFC, Mikey wins?

    As to your figure of £100M, how do you arrive at that? You might want to use the Wonga deal as a yardstick.

  • 185 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:46 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie @167

    i think the only ones that came out bad was hall & Freddie as the were a laughing stock a couple of seedy pervs that had to buy a woman. and we all know how much we are ripped off on sports gear you just have to walk into primark, the far east sweat shops have been there for 2,000 years, and will be for a long as businesses men with no morals do business, we all make a choice wen we make a purchase just some pretend not to notice the 6 year old child making them for 18 hours a day.

  • 186 jayphoto // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:46 PM

    Pardew isn’t staying to hold out for a 10.5m payout!hes staying 1) because we still have a great squad and are the highest profile club he will ever work for and 2) his contract has clauses in it that if he walked away the club could financially ruin him in the courts! It wouldn’t shock me if there were clauses about what he can and can’t say to the media also

  • 187 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:47 PM

    Blackley and Brownlie

    a little thing called corporation tax.

  • 188 toonking // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    TDS
    the plan I keep thinking with cashley is he is just standing about waiting for rangers to get back into the SPL.
    why else would an owner put shares into another club change it’s stadium name to SDA when he already owns a club in this league.
    what I think he was thinking is Liverpool were showing signs of dropping form so he decided to try and buy Newcastle and knowing that KK did so well for us the first time as manage maybe with him this would be the chance he needed to get a huge amount of money and advertisement from the CL and the difference with Newcastle to the like of the Liverpool’s arsenals and Manchester united was we have been sitting about with nothing much at all so just qualifying for it would suit us. but that is were the mistake was because at the time what he didn’t know was city and Chelsea were now turning into top 4 also football was turning into a money= success game KK would be wanting control himself of the club so what ended up happening is he walked out. the problem then is the thing he never would expect, uproar in his mind we were loyal passionate fans who totally cared for our club he never would have expected uproar so probably didn’t have a plan for it. when we got relegated he was doing all he could to force us being sold but the trouble was he failed.

    when rangers went into admin that changed things totally he could see that the SPL is all about them two teams it’s nowhere near as big a challenge as this league so having seen them loose their last owner he has now put a massive share into them and while they are getting themselves up into the SPL what he has decided to do is just get all the money he spent on paying our dept by using these TV deal and selling players dear which is probably why they are all said to be for sale and also why they keep getting big contracts also he probably used the Wonga deal as a way to get the stadium name changed back to st james. derak I think he walked away this summer because even he knew that things were about to change and joke is nothing but a way to force pardew out after the nightmare contract he give him.

  • 189 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:50 PM

    Blackley…I have to say, whilst a little tacky, I don’t have any major problems with the SD signs. Maybe as I’m not from the area and haven’t been around to experience the tradition etc. Plus I am relatively young and gross advertising is a way of modern life. It just doesn’t register to me.

    I can also accept it’s well within his right to put up what he likes. If the other aspects were being taken care off, this would be an easy trade off.

    It’s a great question about whether SD do pay anything. As far as I am aware, they do not, but I personally cannot be sure. Let’s just say, I’ve seen absolutely no evidence or even an argument to suggest that they do.

    As for why, as 100% owner of NUFC, doesn’t he want SD paying for advertising? Wouldn’t that tie in with the debate over where we come in the pecking order and what his intentions for us are?

    He doesn’t really care if we’re progressing, which that money could be used for. As long as we provide an advertising board from within the PL for SD and not costing him anymore money…mission accomplished.

    fatman…That’s where I’m at. We can discuss value all day long, but that only becomes relevant when he sells (which may well be an important factor as and when). My point is his actual investment would be nowhere near that amount now and he can continue to have this amazing exposure…why will he suddenly be in a rush to leave. Surely it’s a case of reaching his original target…which is a continuous one. That is unless, people are making it uncomfortable for him to stick around. Which was all my original point was meant for.

  • 190 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:50 PM

    tonking @169

    You’re saying NUFC could not attract a better manager in the world whilst Ashley is here. I’m saying Pardew has lost the plot. His c.v. tells you he would. He will get us relegated. I simply don’t accept they’re are not good managers out there eager to take on the challenge. This is a major club, make no mistake, and this is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

  • 191 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:54 PM

    blackley

    100% agree with you there. Look around europe and see how many managers have to put up with crazy owner who undermine them at every chance.

    For all I don’t like Ashley and his lack of ambition, as i see it, there are plenty others who spend less, sell more and have no where near the facilities/following of us.

  • 192 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:55 PM

    toonking…That is where my hope that he is planning his exit comes from.

    Sorry Rangers.

    Rotonda…Do you not think though that any manager worth his salt, or with ambition, would be left royally peeved that after finishing 5th, getting European football back to the club after years then doesn’t get the backing of the owner?

    We can argue Pardews merits all we like, but any decent manager, who is treated that way, will not be sticking around and then we’re back in to the managerial circus again.

    Until Ashley changes his ways, I don’t see how we’re going to attract, but more importantly keep a decent manager at the club. Unless you think it’s merely a case that Ashley lost faith in Pardew? Doesn’t quite make sense though after that decent season, but maybe I’m missing something?

  • 193 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:56 PM

    Ibiza

    You seem to want it both ways there. You’re saying NUFC is smaller in the pecking order. However, you’re saying NUFC needs to make as much profit as possible in order to repay Mikey’s his loan. Surely, if you own 100% of a company and only a fraction of another company, you ensure that you charge a full commercial rate.

    This is portrayed as a big cheat on NUFC by so many people, and is one of the major gripes held against Mikey. Yet nobody has explained to me so far how it works? Perhaps Fatman has by the time I’ve posted this.

  • 194 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:57 PM

    ibiza

    some managers would work in those circumstances though…some have much harder jobs. they might not be happy but would get on with it, same as pardew has had to.

  • 195 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    blackley

    I’m not sure how coorporate finances work and the many many ways to move money around between companies but maybe it’s because the amount of money he would be transferring to us NUFC from sports direct for advertising would be very small compared to his total wealth so irrelevant to him.

    Also free advertising may help keep other shareholders and sports direct happy and allow him to sell shares for more?

    Again I have no idea if that makes financial sense, just speculating.

  • 196 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    TS

    Any new manager would have a very decent squad. They would have no interference from the owner on the playing side. And, if they’re sacked, they’d walk away a rich man.

  • 197 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:01 PM

    Blackley…Firstly, this conversation has not been about things that I want, just trying to make sense of it all really.

    On your last comment, I’d love for someone to explain how it works and back it up. Far too much speculation for my liking and it’s always hard to form sensible opinions based on speculation.

    Considering that SD is about to join the FTSE, I’d say it’s fairly clear where the priorities are.

    The cost to advertise SD over SJP may be a small figure, but the exposure it provides SD is huge.

    Whilst he may want to recoup moneys he’s put in to NUFC, if it benefits SD to do this slowly then that is what he will do.

    What percentage stake he has in each venture matters little when you consider the difference in actual profit. Of course SD is priority for him.

  • 198 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    i know people that know Ashley and hes exactly the man he want to be, he has no morals and just does as he wants, he does things on the fly, he makes a few mistakes along the way, but hes a gambler with vast funds. he only looses what he wants to loose some like him most hate him, yes most are jealous of him and they will never get his toys as long as he wants to play with them. if Ashley ever wanted to get rid of the club he could have done, the fact he still has it shows it still doing what he intended for it. and sadly i don’t think winning anything interests him he can get just as much thrill finishing 4th bottom. its just his train set.

  • 199 Ibizatoon // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    TS…Once again, I’ve made my point badly :)

    It’s not just lack of investment, but the way in which they do it.

    The managers who appear happy to work within a certain setup, generally have a lot of respect and good relationships with the owners of the club. There is an understanding, no misleading. I don’t believe that to be the case under Ashley at all.

    If there was a clear guideline / protocol then of course, but I don’t see it at our club.

    I’m not saying we can’t attract the managers, although I think it’s a lot more difficult than it used to be for us (unless of course a lower league manager wanting to prove their worth), but I do believe we would struggle to keep said manager with the way Ashley deals with the club…and I don’t mean by working to a budget, that’s fine and part of business.

  • 200 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:05 PM

    TS

    he is the major shareholder at SD. Besides, other shareholders wouldn’t expect or need such favours. Moreover, the amount at stake is neither here not there to SD’s profits in terms of what it would cost to advertise at an EPL ground.

    I just think, before people take this as a major gripe, and claim that NUFC is a cow for SD to milk, they need to answer that question.

  • 201 toonking // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:06 PM

    blackley
    here are some prime examples of why bad ownership will mean trouble

    1 rafa he walked away from Liverpool
    the reason he wanted total control of the team which top hicks and George would not provide

    2. steve keane last season the venkies had such a nightmare finding a manager

    3.KK alan shearer they both again wanted total control of our club which Ashley just will not do.

    it’s all simple the arrival of a manager has so much more to do with owners now than is used to have because football is about spending money FACT.

  • 202 Santon03 // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:07 PM

    after reading Maldini’s comment, I hope I wish I dream he will be our next manager.
    But 99.9% it won’t happen because of his loyalty to Milan.

  • 203 Santon03 // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:08 PM

    Imagine “The next Maldini” being coached by The real Maldini :)

  • 204 ToonMatt // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:09 PM

    Mike Ashley bought our club to make a profit on player sales, to keep the TV money and the premier league money etc and to advertise his shop all over the ground. That’s it really? He does not want to move the club forward that’s been proven.

  • 205 Transfer Sage // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:13 PM

    Blackley

    Not sure of the ins and out of business as I said before so no idea. I dare bet knowing how be operates he is benefitting himself the biggest way.

  • 206 Coach // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:22 PM

    Blackley
    My understanding is that Ashley handles all his business assets through a holding company. In fact I’d be very surprised if he didn’t.

    We only see what he wants us to see and that could include some of the advertising revenues.

  • 207 toonking // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:22 PM

    toonmatt
    I think you didn’t quite read the full post.
    the sell of players this TV money it’s all the money he used to pay the debt we had. what I keep thinking is he is now just waiting for rangers.

    an even better way to look at it.
    it was when they went into admin that we had got into Europe so what so that was probably why he didn’t strength and why pardew’s job now is just to avoid relegation ashleys knows that with Europe it means more players which means spending money and if we don’t which is what happened last year then relegation becomes a hazard. the trouble for Ashley then is if we were relegated it would make selling the club much harder which it was last time. so pardew who is just an employer has to keep Newcastle up but avoid getting into Europe and I think this would be what most managers jobs would be right now at Newcastle so yet more reson I couldn’t see anyone come.

  • 208 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:34 PM

    ToonMatt

    i would totally disagree with your assumption as to why Ashley purchased the club because on a night out with Chris Mort my brother was told by him it was solely to promote his business.
    if you look at the rules on corporation tax if Ashley paid £20m for his advertising a sizable chunk would have to be paid in tax. if i was in Ashley’s shoes i would do the same and its not totally unusual for a business to have a branch that works on a not for profit basis, and its just like big business they often have what many would call tax fiddles like the coffee shops who run in the UK as a not for profit basis, and buy all the stock from head office in Luxembourg who only charge them 1.8% tax as they pay all the business revenue to pay for the beans. that’s how they always make a loss on £265m of sales.

  • 209 fatman // Sep 12, 2013 at 3:44 PM

    toonking

    someone is bankrolling rangers to the tune of £1m a week, no names came out yet as to whose doing it but the only reason is to get them to the top table at the earliest opportunity.

  • 210 stuart no9 // Sep 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM

    lets put it this way , all this talk of why did ash buy the club , what his motives were , what was his long term goal – the one thing we ALL know is that he didnt buy it for the love of the geordie nation , he didnt buy it for the love of football and he didnt buy to make NUFC great again , therefore get the fat bast//d out now , regardless of why he bought it , it certainly wasnt for football reasons, end of dicussion really . boycott.

  • 211 Blackley and Brownlie // Sep 12, 2013 at 4:14 PM

    Coach

    He may hold companies in holding companies. However, SD International has subsidiary companies, but none is NUFC. So it doesn’t explain why it’s not paying a full commercial rate to NUFC.

    Perhaps, SD pays Mikey direct and he pockets it, but then he would be taxed on that. If it went to NUFC, I would think it would have sufficient losses brought forward from previous years to cover any such receipts for tax purposes.

    If Mikey is paid direct, I cannot see how it would be anywhere near as much as he saves the club by waiving interest on its massive borrowing.

    If Mikey is scoring by a private arrangement, he is making back any losses much quicker. Pride restored, if pride is, as has been suggested, an issue. So SD is in fact paying indirectly.

  • 212 Coach // Sep 12, 2013 at 5:15 PM

    Blackley
    I would hesitate to try to guess what tax planning Ashley has in place, he can afford much more expensive people than me.

    My point was simply that he has effective control of SD and he has total control of NUFC and his holding company. He can shuffle agreements and money around to suit his purposes and I guarantee that he does.




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