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Newcastle After Portuguese League Center-Back

10:56 am, Tuesday, September 24th, 2013 by Ed Harrison · 157 Comments

Newcastle United are reported to be interested in 20-year-old Cape Verde defender Pecks, who has also attracted the interest of both Manchester City and Tottenham.

Pecks

Cape Verdi born Pecks - looks older than 20 – he must worry a lot

The six-foot defender broke into the first team of Portuguese side Gil Vicente only last season, and his powerful and skillful play has attracted some of the top Premier League sides to watch him play in the Portuguese League.

Pecks has played only 10 times for Gil Vicente so far, and he is listed at around £500K by transfermarkt.com, which is within the budget of Newcastle, but that fee doesn’t seem to be very accurate – read on.

But we’ll not have much chance of signing this lad if Manchester City and Tottenham are really interested in him, and City are said to already be in the driver’s seat to get the Cape Verdi born youngster.

Cape Verdi is off the west coast of Africa, directly west of Senegal capital Dakar.

The right footed center-back has already played for his country of birth, and was in the Cape Verde squad in the 2013 Africa Cup of Nations earlier this year.

But if the news that the Gil Vicente President has already slapped an £8M fee on his head, then Newcastle will exit right – and quickly too.

Gil Vicente President Antonio Fiusa had this to say:

“The player has a contract until 2017 and we will not sell for a low price.”

The report is that Manchester City will move in with a £5M offer for Pecks, after they have already watched the 20 year-old several times already this season.

Why is that we think Newcastle will have no chance of signing this player?

Comments welcome.

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Tags: Newcastle News · Transfer News and Rumours · Transfer Target





157 responses so far ↓

  • 1 estechco // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:17 AM

    Jeez- hard paper round or what!?!

  • 2 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM

    I really don’t get this idea of attacking our own all of the time. Whether it’s Ashley, JFK, Pardew, Shola, Jonas, Cisse, Saylor or anyone else, they are all employed by our club to do a certain job and I’d rather they did their jobs to the best of their abilities as that’s good for the club which is also good for me, a fan.

    I get that we’d have liked Gomis or Lukaku instead of Ameobi, I get that we’d like a proper DoF instead of JFK, I get that we’d like a top manager instead of Pardew and I definitely get that we’d like an owner that has a relationship with the fans, but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour.

    The relationship between the fans and Ashley is damaged beyond repair in my opinion and that’s as much the fans fault as it is Ashley’s, but it is what it is. I still don’t see any point in slagging him off or protesting. If we want a new owner, what we should be focussing on is attracting a new owner to our club rather than demanding the current one leaves! It’s frankly moronic and never works. Why can’t a protest be about something positive for a change?

  • 3 Belfast // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    Hardest paper round in the world mate lol
    Dodgy passport me thinks !!

  • 4 theartfuldodger // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:37 AM

    Perhaps we should try a front three of gouffran campbell sammy against leeds. Behind them marveaux. Then tiote and gosling.

  • 5 martoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:38 AM

    cestriasteve from last topic – I’m not sure about Cisse – I’d probably play him against Leeds hoping for some inprovement to increase his confidence and take it from there. I’d also consider switching back to 4 4 2 as we have to make sure we track their fullbacks – especially Baines.

  • 6 Rotonda heights // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:43 AM

    TDS

    You must appreciate people’s grievances and many of them have now reached a tipping point. You didn’t even mention Wonga for good measure.

    Ashley turned down the Mansoors quoting them a widely rumoured 800M so he’s not going anywhere soon and I guess some people are just sick of settling for mediocrity and want to vent – do you get that too?

    This is a forum for views other than your own to be aired and discussed topically.after all

    What have the fans done so far that has been so bad and as you say moronic? I think by and large they’ve been remarkably tolerant.

    I see a couple of very unfortunate quotes attributed to you in a previous thread. I think the ego has landed!!

  • 7 catchy in norway // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:44 AM

    TDS

    is that a wind up ??

    protest about something positive?? is that not what praise is about??
    what do we have to praise??

    and “if im honest” many of us do praise the team that has been built, I think you will find that it is not being used to full affect,
    you carnt please everyone, and no one ever will, but if he was in a room with 100 fans (nufc ones) I would say more than 90% would ask why Jonas gets a game? there is no logical reason for him being at our club right now,

    our team is capable of so much more than we see, basic passing and movement is so poor at our club right now, this is all down to coaching,

    for tomorrow, I see us getting beat, and his answer will be we were missing a few of our big players,

    he will forget that he picks the team, and that it is LEEDS we are playing,

    sad man

  • 8 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:44 AM

    TDS

    How do we attract a new owner? there is no way we can do that. We already have a great reputation worldwide (even after all the anti-shepherd/manager protests of the past).

    I think protesting will either do nothing or get ashley to consider selling early (even if it means he pulls more money out quicker to pay off his loan). It certainly won’t make things worse in my opinion (just my opinion of course).

    I think a protest could get ashley to put the club up for sale (it did last time) and that means we are more likely to find a new owner. He needs to be the one looking for a buyer as he is the only one who operates in the circles/has the connections needed to find a buyer….we simply do not/

  • 9 Jonny // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:44 AM

    Play strongest team possible tomorrow night. If we end up playing reserves, we will get done over by Leeds.

  • 10 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    we should be playing 8/9 of our first team tomorrow

    we need to get some fluidity into our game and drill the defensive structure….mass changes will only make this worse

  • 11 roy // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    We need someone to replace Colocini, who is starting to look well past his best, he does not win any headers his pace is gone and its time he was gone.

  • 12 Belfast // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:50 AM

    I would play a full strength team, Drop Cisse and play Remy through the middle.

    Get the feeling that Pardew will play a team full of kids though, and blame it on the kids if we get beat.

  • 13 Nufc-83 // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:52 AM

    roy // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    We need someone to replace Colocini, who is starting to look well past his best, he does not win any headers his pace is gone and its time he was gone.
    Colo has never been strong in the air and has never had pace so not sure what your going on about tbh. You dont need pace when you can read the game as good as him but i do think we are missing a physical cb to partner colo.

  • 14 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:55 AM

    Rotonda

    I absolutely get that it’s reached tipping point for many fans. A few points:
    – I can’t stand Wonga, I really can’t. They were selected as they apparently offered the best deal. I simply don’t believe that Virgin would have offered more, that makes no sense when people will say that Ashley is greedy. But I’d like to know why Bolton fans managed to stop their payday loan sponsor while we just bitched about Wonga on forums? That was a good time to protest!!
    – £800M seems pure fairytale to me and I don’t believe it for a minute. Even if it was true, he bought the club and has a right to keep it if he wants to. He overvalues our players to avoid them from leaving on the cheap, doesn’t it make sense that he would do the same for his other asssets?
    – I didn’t call our fans moronic. I said that protests demanding that the owner leaves are moronic. Seeing as we haven’t actually managed to orchestrate a proper campaign to demand that yet, I would have thought it was clear I was referring to fans at other clubs who have done the same. Blackburn certainly spring to mind…aren’t they in a good place now…

    What thread are you referring to? Some people have a wonderful habit of twisting words and attributing quotes absent the topic.

  • 15 Nufc-83 // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    Another thing that i cant understand is the amount of criticism Sammy Ameobi gets. He is a young lad who to me has impressed and looked better than our 1st teamers in recent times. He put in some good displays in Europe and has looked good for the England u21. I would rather him on the left and Remy through the middle than playing Cisse at the moment any day of the week.

  • 16 Laurent Robert 32 // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:58 AM

    Belfast – 12, I think he may do that as well.

  • 17 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    catchy

    So 90% of NUFC fans think that they could do a better job than our manager. Now that’s arrogance!

    Jonas is a workmanlike midfielder. He’s not a Ginola, Robert or Solano for sure but when he plays it’s because the manager things he’s the best man for the job. Our only other option last season was Marveaux who flits in and out of games and doesn’t exactly do much defensively. I don’t have a problem with a hard worker like Jonas at all.

    People slagged off Simpson for being limited, now they’re slagging off Debuchy for being too attacking…

    As for the protest topic. I’m not suggesting we praise Pardew or Ashley because they haven’t done enough things positively to deserve that. What I’m suggesting is that the protests are to demand a new owner. We speculate on new potential signings but I hate it when people speculate on who should be sold, I just don’t get it.

  • 18 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:03 PM

    TS

    He put it up for sale before because he realised that the club he wanted to have fun running wasn’t going to be fun any more after the KK mess. That still p*sses me off on both sides because Ashley should have taken advice from experienced football people, not appointed KK on a whim and frankly the fans should not have overreacted. The relationship died then…

    You don’t think it would be an interesting twist to demand a new owner buys our club and to highlight the passionate fans that we have?

  • 19 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:06 PM

    Case in point…Colo has already been slagged off on this page. He’s the best defender we’ve got!!

    Sure, it would be great if we could go out and buy a Vidic or Sakho but that’s not exactly realistic…

  • 20 Our Toon // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    He certainly doesnt look 20, the team tomorrow should be:

    Elliott,

    Tav Saylor Good/Williamson Haidara/Dummett

    Marv Gosling Tiote Birgi Sammy

    Cisse

  • 21 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:13 PM

    TDS

    The same protests calling for Ashley out are calling for a new owner as well. It’s not ashley out and nobody there…its for ashley to sell to an owner we want.

    I have contacted the MAOC through their facebook page and read there updates on there and twitter. They have something organised, a mass protest before the game, before the liverpool game. They are working very hard and often have regular meetings in the city with those who want to/are able to get involved with such things.

    They are pushing for a new owner, which is what you want, but also intent to remain loyal to the team in games to show how much we back the team. It’s a good campaign. They are also collating and getting the views of former players and trying to get them on board.

  • 22 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:15 PM

    Transfer Sage,

    MAOC is the way forward. Looks a ver positive and organised campaign, I have been following it for a few weeks as well.

    Team:
    Elliot
    Deb Mbi Good Dumm
    Tiote Anita Sissoko
    Gouf Cisse Sammy

  • 23 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:15 PM

    TDS

    we might not be able to get vidic but we could have gotten another defender to come in for williamson to push the other 3 more.

  • 24 Our Toon // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:16 PM

    TDS check the link below:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1057300/Dubai-says–8216-8217-Ashley-drinks-cocktail-public.html

  • 25 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:19 PM

    TS

    I have no time with the MAOC. I’ve seen so many stupid statements from them in the past, they have a stupid name, they refused to respond when I asked to be put in touch with someone at time4change and MacToon was nothing but abusive recently.

    Maybe they’ve grown up a little but everything I’ve seen from them is that they’re a tinpot group who couldn’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery.

    Maybe time4change will make a difference and I know MAOC are part of that so maybe a little direction for all these groups is what is needed. I know it’s part of time4change’s plan that they want to campaign for a new owner of the right sort too and I’ll all for that’s.

    The protest has to be done well, and hopefully they’ll do that. A few dozen or few hundred people chanting “Ashley out” is just pointless.

  • 26 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:22 PM

    Our Toon

    Firstly it’s the Daily Fail…

    And even if it was all true, it states:
    – Ashley was demanding £481M NOT £800M as some people claimed
    – The offer on the table was only £200 which is less than the purchase price plus the loans so he would have had to have taken a loss!
    – Dubai Investment Group denied being involved in negotiations

  • 27 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:23 PM

    TDS

    They are not a tinpot group. They have an official site, al be it on facebook, post regular updates, host meetings, and have a joint plan to work towards a protest at the liverpool game.

    I think it’s a bit disrespectful to call them that when everyone else i know who has spoke with/met them find them very balanced and productive.

    And how is MAOC a bad name? it sums up what we want, Ashley out and a new owner in.

  • 28 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:24 PM

    TS

    We could have…and Chelsea could have bought another striker, Man City could have bought another central defender, Man Utd could have bought another creative midfielder etc.

    We can always pick at the weak points of our squad but I don’t get that attitude at all.

  • 29 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:25 PM

    TDSarf

    Pardew is not one of our own. Ashley is not one of our own. Kinnear is not one of our own. As for your criticisms of MAOC, you know next to nothing about what they are doing so you are in no fit place to comment. Get off that misplaced high horse of yours and actually get in the mindset of a fan who wants to make a difference.

    You’re a joke lad.

  • 30 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:25 PM

    TS

    Last time I had a look at their site and whenever I’ve spoken to someone on here who claimed to represent them, I’ve seen nothing from them that convinced me they were worth following.

    However, I understand that time4change is an umbrella group that includes MAOC so perhaps what they are saying now is on their behalf?

  • 31 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:27 PM

    Ciaran,

    Tell it how it is mate

  • 32 roy // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM

    Colocini the best defender Mbwia is far superior its a pity he hasn’t someone as good alongside him. Colocini, this is the same guy who Suarez and Bale took the piss out of along with Walcott, last season.

  • 33 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    TDS

    MAOC working under time4change is a good thing, it is getting everyone together and looking to involve as many people and ideas as possible. It seems to be taking time due to everyone involved wanting it organised properly and the best action to be taken.

    I know we can all say every team missed out on x. y or z but every other team but us bought a player in the summer. We got a single loan signing ( a good signing mind).

    Chelsea could have got a striker (or just kept lukaku, best striker at chelsea) but they still got willian, schurle, eto’o….we got nobody.

  • 34 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    roy

    Suarez, Bale and Walcott are 3 of the trickiest players in the world to play against! They all take defenders apart.

    Plenty of people on here have slagged off MYM and you’re saying he’s better than Colo. We have 2 defenders good enough for top 10 PL but sadly our next 2 are only good enough for bottom 10…

  • 35 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:34 PM

    roy

    mbiwa is our third best CB after colo, then taylor.

    i’ll get slated by 99% of people for this but saylor, although has the odd mad moment, is a damn site better than mbiwa in the prem league.

  • 36 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:34 PM

    TS

    I think it could be a very good thing. Like I’ve said many times, time4change seems to have the right message and I like it. I’d love to find out more about what they actually want to do and what they are planning but my offer of help was ignored and I’m too far away to join any protest.

    My point was that just demanding the owner leaves is moronic. We’ve seen fans of several other clubs do it before and all it does it destabilise the club and often lead to relegation, whether they were already heading there or now. I’m all for a campaign demanding an owner who does the right things for the club.

  • 37 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:36 PM

    TDS

    agree with you on that…bale, walcott and suarez can make any defenders look poor on their day.

  • 38 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:37 PM

    TS/roy

    Opinions are funny things…

    roy things MYM is better than Colo, TS things Saylor is better than MYM.

    I’m going to disagree with both of you and order them Colo, MYM, Saylor then Willo

    The biggest problem with Saylor is that he’s always liable to give away a penalty or being sent off. He’s got away with so many in recent seasons that I don’t think he will keep getting the benefit of the doubt. If only we could combine his passion with the ability of some of the other lads!

  • 39 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:42 PM

    On our defence,

    MYM is a very good defender, even when he does make the occasional mistake he has the pace to recover. Fair enough he is not brilliant in the air but that is why he should be played with someone who is.

    Saying Taylor isn’t good enough for top 10 side is harsh. Yeah he makes the odd howler but most of the time he is solid. I seem to remember fans chanting Taylor for England last season when he had a VERY good run of 5-10 games and was like a brick wall against Anzhi.

    In addition to that I think Good has shown the potential that he could well step up. Only heard good thigs about him when he was at Bradford, and they played some pretty tough opponents in that cup run which they wouldn’t have beat if it wasn’t for a solid defence. He looked very good against Morecambe the other week and I expect him to look good against Leeds as well.

    We all know Williamson can do a job as well as long as it is only 1-4 games a season rather than 10-20.

    I think if we brought in another CB then that area would have been looking pretty decent.

    The reason our defence often looks shaky is because both of our wingbacks are very aggresive and once w go ahead we let teams come onto us. We then try and play on the counter which means the game gets stretched and our DM find it hard to fill in the gaps.

    If we just tried to keep a hold of the ball and play possession football for at least 10 mins after we score then our defence would suddenly look a lot better. Its bad tactics and coaching which are leading to our many defensive errors at the moment.

  • 40 Our Toon // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:42 PM

    http://worldsoccertalk.com/2008/09/17/mike-ashley-snubs-dubai-investors-for-cocktails/

    http://www.questia.com/library/1P2-17178614/ashley-asks-dubai-investors-for-pounds-481m-for-newcastle

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ashley-asks-dubai-investors-for-163481m-for-newcastle-sale-932897.html

    http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-investors-told-newcastle-is-yours-for-860mn-43218.html

    Make what you will of them

  • 41 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:43 PM

    TDS

    I think most of us, 99% + i dare bet, have accepted that Ashley will not do whats best for the club, he will do whats cheapest.

    I think a lot of us think the only way we will kick on is to get a new owner. Therefore trying to get ashley to sell is the only option. We can’t personally do much about getting a new owner, we dont know billionaires who are interested in buying clubs (unless you do then please have a word haha).

    Trying to get him to put the club up for sale and actively seek a buyer is probably the most we can do. As for it getting clubs relegated..not sure where that comes from, Blackburn? There fans were appauling protesting during the full 90 mins…not before or after the game.

    Everton did it well, protest before games, still finished 6th and the owner came out and explained the situation with selling on sky sports goals on sunday (said he wants to sell as he can’t give them the money they need but he wants to sell to a proper football fan/ambitious person not the first person to offer to buy…even if it means he doesn’t make as much money).

  • 42 Our Toon // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:44 PM

    On the subject of our centre halves:

    I agree with TDS: Colo, MYM, Saylor (Liability) Williamson (Shocking)

  • 43 Jail for Ashley // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:44 PM

    TDsarf,
    The fans are a smuch to blame for the breakdown in the relationship with Ashley as much as him, are these the same fans that buy tens of thousands of shirts and fill the stadium just about every other week, how would you have reacted to club legend being shat on from a great height, a midnight candle vigil singing kumbaya my lord, you’re not a fan you cretin.

  • 44 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:45 PM

    tinman

    I think mbiwa doesn’t pick men up well from corners/crosses and also drops too deep playing people onside as he can’t hold a line well.

    Now that could be him settling into a new league/team with a bad defensive/coaching system…or he couldbeterrible, who knows.

  • 45 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM

    Tinman

    The problem is that our “wing backs” are supposed to be full backs! We demanded more attacking play and we have it with 2 attacking full backs, but they need to learn when to attack and when to defend in this league.

    As for Saylor…look how far down the pecking order he is for England. I’m not saying he’s useless but saying that he’s a bottom half PL player is hardly a huge insult considering where we finished last year and that 7th or 8th is about the best we can hope for this season.

  • 46 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    Alright Jail, I admit, that made me laugh… Much better than your Ashely one liners!
    Did you see the Lazio protest before the Roma game mate?

  • 47 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    MAOC

    here are two teams Liverpool and Manchester united both owned by very bad owners called gilletts and glazers. both sets of fans wanted them out both had lots of protesting first year.

    Manchester united held onto their great manager

    Liverpool lost rafa brought in and football legend Kenny daglish.

    the time come and Liverpool were sold in 2010 and brought in a different owner yet not once have they managed to reach the top4 or even get near this year they are no even in Europe

    Manchester united have the same owner they all hate still to this minute as the red knights failed to get rid of the owner and arejust gettingon with things like normal. this year things are not looking as good butthey don’t seem to blame the glazers they blaming players and moyse lack of xp.

    the best way for the chaos we have with our owner is to just take the stories relating to the owner like a pinch of salt.

    he has had the club up for sale for years. he has put money into rangers the players he gets now seem to be panic buyes and the main aim seems to be avoiding relegation.

    this is all the plans that a business man would do if he is ready and waiting to leave for another business.

    rangers I think are bad into the SPL in two years time so in the mean time instead of letting him pubish more headlines into papers which will involve the world owner of sports direct we should just support the team.

  • 48 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:55 PM

    TS

    Ashley won’t do what is cheapest, he will do what brings in the most return for investment.

    The Everton owner already listened to the fans, the problem was that he didn’t have the money to invest. For me that’s the way it should be anyway, clubs should only spend what they earn and FFP is supposed to address this. Kinda pointless closing the door when the horses have already bolted though…what chance do the rest of us have of catching the top 6 if we can’t get a little boost?

    Blackburn fans were an absolute disgrace, I’d be ashamed if I supported them and saw those kinds of protests. They truly were moronic.

    I think the club is always up for sale really. What is needed is for a billionaire to want to buy a football club to see that we have a fanbase that are crying out for our club to be run differently and then he can approach Ashley.

    Don’t expect a new owner to get more involved though…but at least hope that he appoints an experienced football person to be the conduit between him/them and the fans.

  • 49 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:00 PM

    TDS

    Well getting the most return long term would be to do what city do….buy big, win things, get champs league and ‘build the brand’ globally. Look to build a huge academy and staff it with the best.

    Ashley does everything on the cheap, even delaying sigings at the potential cost to the clubs season.

  • 50 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:01 PM

    JfA

    So that’s my point. What is more important? KK or NUFC?

    We know KK is a maverick, he’d walked out on Newcastle allegedly because he refused to sign a new long-term contract to help the flotation of the club and he’d walked out on England too. KK is a passionate man and he’s passionate about this club but his passion can get the better of him as we all know. Should KK have walked out on us the first time or should he just have signed the contract for the good of the club and continued being our manager?

    Ashley clearly made a mistake in appointing KK and made another mistake by going up against him. Had it been anyone else (other than Shearer) then he’d have won that battle as he expected to. He didn’t anticipate the feeling that fans have towards their legends.

    I could either blame both parties or I could say that the fans were no more to blame at defending a NUFC legend than Ashley was in running the club like he would have run any other business.

  • 51 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:03 PM

    Of course the club is always up for sale, everything in football is for sale at the right price… Just ask Qatar.
    Wish people would stop using that phrase, its so foocking obvious.

  • 52 JAMSHA // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:04 PM

    gona play pes 14

  • 53 roy // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:06 PM

    Next time you attend a game take note of how many times Colocini is caught by a ball over the top or out of position and of how many headers he actually wins. The lad used to be a good player but now he just flatters to decieve age has caught up with him. Taylor is a Championship player just like Simpson and Perch.

  • 54 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    Haway Roy, who sh!t in your cornflakes lad

  • 55 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    Funny who is perceived as a good owner then…
    Man Utd – bad owners as the Glazers have saddled the club with debt and don’t invest enough in the squad
    Man City – good owners from their fans’ perspectives but bad from the rest of us because they play fantasy football
    Chelsea – as above
    Arsenal – good owners from a financial perspective but bad from most fans because they have invested more in the new ground and houses and not much in the squad so have lost ground in competing for trophies
    Liverpool – bad owners because they appointed Dogleash and wasted loads of money in the transfer market, plus more debt I believe
    Spurs – good owners?
    Everton – good owners in that they communicate with the fans but bad owners because they are incapable of getting investment to push them to the next level
    Sunderland – ha!
    Villa – A club of similar stature to ours reduced to buying youth players and hoping they turn out well
    Blackburn – Oops
    Wolves – Oops
    West Ham – seriously? Yo yo club

    You could look at some of the smaller clubs (Norwich, Saints, Wigan, Swansea) and think that they have decent owners but it’s on a totally different scale there and they are just delighted when they get into the PL. When they do get into the PL, their revenue is nearly as high as ours.

    So some fans want the kind of owner that Chelski or Citeh have. Personally, the only way I’d like to see the club run is the Spurs way.

  • 56 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:12 PM

    TS

    No it wouldn’t. There’s far too much competition to do that and guarantee success. If a new owner wanted to do that at Newcastle then it would cost much more than it cost Chelski or Citeh. Besides, if we tried to do that now wouldn’t FFP stop us? We’d need to spend about £200M for about 3 years in a row to get a squad to compete for the title every year. Insane!

    There’s no guarantee that the owners of Citeh or Chelski will make money. But they do have a fun vehicle to invest in and enjoy. Probably a few tax breaks there too…

  • 57 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:12 PM

    The mistake wasn’t in appointing Keegan, as he has more tactical nous than any manager we had before him since Sir Bobby, and any other manager we have had since, and are likely to have in the foreseeable future.

    The mistake was not backing this manager, and then undermining him at every turn round to such an extent that his only recourse was to leave the club. Yes he has shown a propensity to walk out on clubs when the going gets tough but that was NOT the case with his departure in 2008 and you are being mis-representative of one of the best managers we have had in living memory by claiming otherwise.

    Your distortion of the facts with statements like “everyone knows it was a mistake to appoint KK” – where the hell do you come up with that sweeping statement!?

    Everyone knows it was a mistake to rename St James’ Park. Everyone knows it was a mistake not to build on the momentum of a 5th place finish by making only 1 first team signing. Everyone knows it was a mistake to sack Chris Hughton. Everyone knows it was a mistake to hire Alan Pardew. Everyone knows it was a mistake to hire Kinnear as Director of Football. Everyone knows it was a mistake not to make a solitary permanent signing in the summer.

    But everyone does NOT know that it was a mistake to hire a club legend in a bid to unite the fans and finally see attacking football back at St James’ Park. The mistake was not allowing that legend to do his job properly.

    You are an utter disgrace of a Newcastle United fan.

  • 58 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:14 PM

    tinman

    yes it is up for sale and any owner who wants to buy it would want to be attracted which is something protesting doesn’t do unless you are a mike Ashley type owner who likes to get easy advertising using the papers.

    owners who want to run a club successfully will not want pressure from fans so if they see fans putting pressure on the current owner for the mistakes he did then they would be put off.

  • 59 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:15 PM

    The problem is Ashley thinks he’s bigger than NUFC,Keegan didn’t he knows what the club means to the supporters and knows Ashley for what he is.
    Ashley has had over six years at the club and we are no better off.The man still doesn’t get the passion of the club and it’s supporters and never will.

  • 60 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:17 PM

    Also fans claiming to know the mindsets of would be investors are wildly speculating. Unless you have tangible proof that potential investors are put off by a passionate fan base protesting against their owner, don’t make the claim.

  • 61 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:19 PM

    TDS,
    just one point before I go. Before you were ranting on about opinions, Taylor being down the England pecking order is just another opinion, so don’t use it as an argument.
    And if you still want to be nitty gritty about it then I would go as far as saying Woy’s opinion means bugger all, he is the same guy who has Milner, Welbeck and Cleverley right up the pecking order.
    But then again, thats just my opinion.

  • 62 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

    Ciaran/Ruddy

    You are in fact a complete and utter moron I have come to realise.

    Considering the way that MA (the owner) wanted to run the club, I’m very surprised to learn that anyone thinks that KK was the right choice as manager. There was no way that MA (the owner!) was going to cede control to KK for who to purchase as it was his money.

    Have you heard about the queue of clubs wanting to hire KK after he left City or after he left us? Nope. He’s a one dimensional manager who was fantastic for us at the right time but that time has gone. He was no more the right choice as manager than Shearer would be the right choice as out replacement number 9 now. The time has passed on both of those legends in those roles.

    You are exactly the kind of moronic Newcastle United fan that so many people take the piss out of when thinking of our club. The reactionary idiot who thinks we should have everything and gets aggressive when we don’t.

    I’m not saying that about everyone who campaigns to get something better for our club, but you just really take the biscuit.

  • 63 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:22 PM

    TDS wasn’t it Keegan’s brand of football and the signing of Shearer that got you to fall in love with our great club,yet you constantly slag of both.

  • 64 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:23 PM

    toonking,

    The type of men with enough money to own a football club are usually very self confident / arrogant. I doubt they would care about fan pressure when an owner makes mistakes because in a their eyes they never make mistakes so there would never be a need for protest.

  • 65 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:24 PM

    Tinman

    Opinions are interesting. And seeing as Alex Ferguson had Cleverly and Wellbeck playing fairly often for him, I think it’s fair to say that they are pretty decent players. Milner also cost £24M? I think so must be pretty highly rated. Aren’t some NUFC fans still annoyed he was sold? I can’t imagine many fans being unhappy if Saylor was sold for £10M or so…

    It is just about opinions and you’re welcome to yours of course. But I don’t think you’ll find many football fans who rate Saylor that highly these days.

  • 66 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:24 PM

    You do not represent Newcastle United fans. You do not represent what this club needs, or what this club should be striving for. It is people (not fans because you are a disgrace to the name) like you who are propagating the mistreatment we are receiving from the fat man because not only will you roll over and take it, but you attempt to justify it.

    As for your insults? If I had any respect for you, or thought you had any credence as a supporter then perhaps it would bother me. You don’t, so it won’t.

  • 67 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:25 PM

    the problem owners face is football is something they don’t know enough about for instance
    leeds and pompey went into dept probably because their owners were spending too much.

    glazers and gilett thought they could make money from united and liverpool but what they didn’t know was united are meant to be a consistant top 2 finisher always challenging for the title Liverpool top4 which means money needs spending also united has loads of debt.

    QPR spend masses of money on random players but didn’t get what they were expecting as them players were more the sort who want to join for the money.

    city and Chelsea good to their own fans but hated by most other fans who are in the country that team are from becaue they are destroying the national side and making football more and more greedy

    boro sliding further and further down with a support getting smaller and smaller due to and owner that was taking too much health and safty risks and also spending too much on the wrong players.

    Blackburn owner again another owner not favoured by the fans, he gets forced out who comes in another awful owner by the sounds of it.

  • 68 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:27 PM

    daztoon

    It was KK’s brand of football yes. I was already a fan before Shearer joined.

    You think I’m slagging Shearer off because I said that he wouldn’t be a good signing as a PL striker now?! I think even he would accept that that boat has sailed!

    Should Arsenal sign George Graham? Should Southampton bring Le Tissier back? Maybe Bobby Charlton could come back and score a few goals for Man Utd from midfield or O’Leary could manage Leeds back into the CL?

    KK and Shearer are both club legends for damn good reasons. It doesn’t mean that they are the right men for any job and they weren’t the right men to manage us at that time either. Especially not under Mike Ashley.

  • 69 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:31 PM

    Seems like he is not willing to consider the fact that both Keegan and Shearer may have been hired under false pretences. Ie Keegan was told that he would be in charge of spending. Shearer may have been told that he would be allowed to manage the club in the Championship.

    In that instance, neither Shearer or Keegan are to blame for what happened thereafter. Ashley is the instigator. However, he is defending Mike Ashley, and claiming that both Keegan and Shearer were a wrong fit.

    In the scenario you are describing, who is a right fit? A manager who is willing to accept being lied to by his owner? Willing to roll out in front of the media and justify the unjustifiable? And willing to deceive, con and lie to the fans in order to twist the facts? If that’s the case then Keegan and Shearer were most certainly not a right fit, and I am glad they are not.

    It would seem Pardew is exactly the right person for this job then….

  • 70 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    tinman
    maybe them very rich owners might be willing.
    but they are few and far between
    Liverpool are a bigger club than city yet they couldn’t find an owner who spends mega all they got was another American who had stories reported this summer that they were planning to sell the club.
    Manchester united the biggest club in Britain yet their city rivals were who got bought when surely the biggest club would be expected to be first choice.

    it’s all just random choice really because if an owner were to buy a new buissness he is risking masses of money.
    city and Chelsea managed to get good spenders but leeds pompey and QPR all went wrong two are now in admit.

  • 71 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    Should read *his boss or the owner – although Pardew does act like Ashley’s lapdog so the Freudian slip may still apply.

  • 72 Tinman // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:38 PM

    TDS,

    In pre season I agreed with most of what you said, we both agreed that the doom mongerers jumped onto the Ashley out boat too quickly. They did.

    We both agreed that we thought a fully fit side would change our style of play and fortunes. It hasn’t.

    We gave Pardew the benefit of the doubt, one good season one bad, maybe he has learnt from his mistakes. He hasn’t.

    We both thought that we would see 2-4 signings come through the door and they would improve our team dramatically. We bought no one.

    We thought Cisse might regain his form when we had more creative players in the side. He hasn’t.

    Before the blog was split about 50-50, now I reckon 90-10 in favour of big changes. (owner, manager, DOF, ambition, philosophy, tactics..etc)
    You have been reduced to pointing the finger at fans and club legends. Then claiming the grass isn’t always greener using Liverpool as your example, yet after a change of ownership and manager and transition period and not a whole load of cash, they are playing good football and the future looks promising for them.

    Our fans are not crying out for a title challenging team, we are not asking for 200m investmet a year, we don’t expect to be a Champions League side each year.
    We want a team which is consitently top 10, usually in the Europa League and occasionally pushing for Champions League whilst having decent FA and Leaue cup runs every few years.
    For a club of our size, with our stadium, with our support, with our fanbase, with our history we are not actually asking for that much.

    I’m all for being positive mate, but things are looking dark at the moment. It IS Time For Change. Slagging off people who are protesting and complaining is not cool.
    So please, give it a rest mate. Your obviously an intelligent guy, but I feel you have been so sucked into the idea of being ‘the positive fan’ that your not making much sense anymore.

    Take a step back and look at how many people support your arguments and how many people disagree with them.

  • 73 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:40 PM

    TDS
    You constantly slag off KK the man who was turning the club around slowly and the man has probably forgotten more about football than either you or will ever know. KK could have had loads of offers but maybe the way he was disgracefully treated by the fat man he may have opted against managing another club you don’t know so wind yer neck in.
    As for Shearer it’s nothing to with him being a good PL striker now it’s the way you slag the man off after he was in charge for eight games on an already sunk ship caused again by Ashley.Also saying he should keep his mouth shut regarding the Toon on many occasions.
    Some of us didn’t pick our team because a player Shearer signed for them it’s in the blood through generations so maybe you don’t get the passion of the many

  • 74 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:41 PM

    Ciaran

    You are a moron because you state this as “fact” all of the time. Can you just stop responding to my posts so I can easily go back to ignoring you?

    You have no idea what the agreement was. The only thing that came out at the court case is that the contract wasn’t clear and therefore Keegan had every right to assume that he would have the final say on transfers. Final say doesn’t necessarily mean that a DoF can’t work with him. He was the wrong appointment because there was no way that MA was going to give a maverick full control over transfer spending.

    As for Shearer…well isn’t the rumour that he asked for £20M to get the club promoted while the club was obviously trying to cut costs? A man with zero track record as a manager…sure, legendary striker but novice manager. We’d have had a better chance getting promoted with Tony Pulis.

    You consistently look at things with black and white tinted glasses, and while that’s sometimes a very admirable thing, it because very irritating when you actually can’t see the wood for the trees.

  • 75 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:41 PM

    Tinman

    Could not have put that better myself. Well said lad.

  • 76 JaxtheMag // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:42 PM

    cisse needs to play againsed leeds.

  • 77 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    TDS 67
    very well said.

    daztoon

    why did Newcastle fans slag daglish?
    he was a great footballer you tell any Liverpool fan that he was rubbish and then will call you the rubbish one.

    arsene wenger had only made 67 appearances as a footballer in his whole career!
    his time at arsenal has been a great management.

    so just because someone was a excellent players does not mean they are an excellent manager.

  • 78 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:46 PM

    T.otally D.eluded S.ap

    Not responding to you per se, just picking fault with the chasms in your argument.

    Through being as objective as I possibly can, there still is no defence for Mike Ashley’s ownership. Go ahead, ignore me, fight the completely wrong fight, and see how many people agree with you.

    I have no wish, want or desire to engage with you, as this is a forum for Newcastle United fans. Of which you are not.

  • 79 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:48 PM

    Tinman

    I think my arguments get distorted by some people who simple don’t understand them.

    I’m all for “time4change” and I don’t know how many times I can make that clear.

    But I do think it’s ridiculous the amount of praise the team was getting before Hull and then the amount of stick that it’s getting afterwards. People were praising Pardew for playing an attacking style of football and then suddenly we have a bad defensive performance and fans are slating him for having full backs who can’t defend. It’s just one game!

    JFK was a bad appointment, I’ve never sad different the transfer window was poor but not horrendous, I think it’s too early to judge Pardew based on this season, but I’m all for a new owner if one can be found. But when has that ever actually worked? When has an owner ever actually sold a PL club for big money because of the fans?

    I’m definitely not slagging off club legends, I’m just putting them in perspective. KK and Shearer have their skills and they will be legends for what they did for this club, but it doesn’t mean that they can just do anything.

    I think KK was past it in 2008 anyway but even if he wasn’t, then the only way to let him manage was to give him money and let him buy whoever he wanted to. The very fact that Ashley didn’t want to work that way makes him a bad appointment. I could hire the best person in the world but if he wasn’t willing to work the way that I wanted him to, it would be a bad appointment.

  • 80 jimmysmith // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM

    What price do you put on all that free advertising to a global audience. Six years of it and barely a dint in the loan he claims the club owes him, all the while operating on a shoestring, and Wonga to add even further insult to injury. Quite disgusting!

  • 81 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:52 PM

    TDS…can you just remind this blog (with a very good archive of posts, I may say) WHEN and WHY you started supporting NUFC?

  • 82 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:56 PM

    daztoon

    Be realistic – KK was only ever really successful at Newcastle. Sure, he got Fulham promoted by spending Al-Fayed’s money but he didn’t do much other than that.

    I hardly think my blood has anything to do with it. Sure, you could argue that it makes you more passionate because you were born into it, but I actually had the choice to support NUFC or to be a glory hunter and support a club that was winning trophies. My family is split between Liverpool, Man Utd and Man City. Just think how many times I could have celebrated a trophy if I’d picked one of those clubs…

    Shearer has done nothing as a manager and he was never going to work with Ashley either. He doesn’t have the humility or the subtlety to work in that kind of environment. I’d love to see him back as manager one day though if he proves himself in management, it would be wonderful to have another passionate fan in charge.

    But my subtlety argument goes for comments in public too. Barton is by far the worst but ex-players who love to club need to be a little more political in their comments Some are and some aren’t. Shearer in his status as the biggest legend of modern times and being on the TV so often as a pundit should know his words carry more weight than others. He might be right in what he thinks but it’s not always the right thing for the club to say it.

  • 83 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:56 PM

    Toonking

    No one is talking about Dalglish so maybe stick to the topic and since when did I even mention Shearer would make a good manager.
    Try reading what is written before replying with total tripe

  • 84 VanToonMan // Sep 24, 2013 at 1:58 PM

    Cisse HAS to play against Leeds and HAS to be on the bench at Goodison Park.

    I’m sorry but do people forget his SHOCKING pass intended to go all the way back to defence when the ball was played into him, which gave them a throw deep in our half of the pitch and eventually led to a goal. We should have defended better subsequently but the fact is that from having the ball and being comfortable pressure was piled on us in an instant from that ludicrous pass.

    Remy HAS to be up top at Everton…better movement, touch, skill and finishing. Cisse on the bench. Goofy will work hard on the left and Benny on the right. If Cabs is injured bring Tiote in as CDM.

    I would also probably put Benny as the attacking midfielder of the central 3 and put Sissoko on the right just for Everton so he can protect Debuchy better against Baines and also Benny might be more potent centrall behind Remy

  • 85 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:00 PM

    TDS, ciaran, others

    Not everyone will agree with everything. If TDS wants to not get involved with change, or not the current groups, then leave him to it. He can do as he pleases as a fan of the club (which he is ciaran, otherwise he wouldn’t get so animated about this issue).

    At the end of the day we all have the rights to our opinions, whether we are right or wrong, we all do what we think is best for the club. Everyone has their own ideas.

    Lets try to keep it a sensible discussion and not resort to insulting people. If somebody doesn’t agree repeating yourself over and over won’t help either.

  • 86 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM

    TDS….it’s two simple questions I asked you!

  • 87 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM

    solano

    If you like…

    Many of my family are Liverpool fans (I was even taken to some games as a kid) so I was told a lot about the Liverpool legends and even say old footage of them play (including Keegan) but I didn’t want to just be a glory hunter and I wasn’t from Liverpool.

    I didn’t follow a club for years but I followed football avidly. Then when Keegan went to Newcastle, it grabbed me. The passion, the atmosphere and the excitement just pulled me in. I was 15 the season we got promoted and 16 by the time we were in the PL and I was a fan then. Keegan was my reason for being a fan and those next few years were just amazing.

    I hardly think I’d be on this blog as a Newcastle fan unless I was passionate about the club.

  • 88 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM

    solano

    Patience is a virtue my friend…

  • 89 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:03 PM

    TS

    I do feel like I’m repeating myself rather a lot…how many times have I said that I’d like to get involved with time4change and I’m interested in what they are doing?

  • 90 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:04 PM

    Sage

    I don’t care if he gets himself involved, or supports a campaign or even agrees with us doing it. The fact of the matter is that his constant defence of the owner, while ridiculing fans, and apportioning more blame and responsibility on club legends than is right or proper all points to the fact that he is not a fan of the growth, ambtion and success of this club, rather he is a fan of healthy balance sheets.

    I’m sorry. I will never agree with anyone who conducts themselves like that, moreover I will never respect that point of view because it is an alien concept to fans of this club who want to see us run with ambition.

    So, your concerns are noted but I am afraid they are falling on deaf ears.

  • 91 cestriasteve // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM

    People should judge Collo and MYM partnership after the next 10 games, they havent even played 10 games together yet. I cant believe we are even discussing CB situation the problem of defending lies with the relationship with the mid field and Full Backs, if we want this 4-3-3 (at home) set up we need to keep playing it, give it a while if it doesnt work then change it.

    Where is Lilongwe when you need advice!!

  • 92 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM

    daztoon

    The point about Dogleash is that he was an amazing player for Liverpool but frankly a dreadful manager. He was lucky the first time as he just inherited a great squad, but he should never have been reappointed. Keegan was different, he had to actually shape the squad the first time he was at NUFC, but that doesn’t change the fact that I don’t think he should have been reappointed either. Keegan’s achievements as a manager outstrip Dogleash’s in terms of benefiting the club for me.

  • 93 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM

    tinman 72

    I think the reason the blog has turned itself into a 90-10 is so many of the the ones at the otherside of the argument have been repelled away by the ruddies.

    I myself am a one who would love a better manager and owner to join but for now will accept pardew as the current manager as I know he has managed to get at least 1 decent finish he is treated live a slave who has no say and the manager merry go round has give enough signs that if he goes the replacement will be no better and with the owner I just think back to our chaos protesting at him last time as it resulted in relegation and I think that he has split the singing section up in the stadium because to make it harder for the shouting Ashley out.

    the likes of bill son dannyo torq I think were just getting fed up of the way posts were.

  • 94 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    ToonDarnSarf

    Why is not they have played in front of 50,000 toon supporters at home and are entitled to their opinion just as any supporter is.Maybe even when you have Toon legends giving their opinion it may make some fans actually wake up and see what is going on at our club.
    I`m pretty sure Keegan would have these players playing football and even got the players Big Sam had playing a bit too.
    Look at Howey, Keegan saw he wouldn`t make it as a striker and he probably would have left the club if hapless KK didn`t see the potential for a CB.
    So NO KK wasn`t all about just buying big name players he developed them too.

  • 95 SeanNufc87 // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    Jesus h its warm on here today.

    Ruddy dont you have somewhere to be mate?

    Jail nice use of the word cretin because you opinion differs again.

    Hes right that its both fans and ashleys fault for the breakdown, he made mistakes so people threatened his family… wonder why that bridge was burnt.

    MA is as stubborn as he is wide, hes not going to sell because your feelings are hurt and are murmuring complaints, hes more likely to piss in your cornflakes for it.

  • 96 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    Anyway, I’m off for a bit, this stifling lack of ambition has infected this blog, debate is dead, the lunatics are running the asylum and the plant is playing victim.

    Sorry times as a NUFC fan, but I suppose we should just be happy we’re in the PL. Ridiculous.

  • 97 cestriasteve // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:08 PM

    Van Toon, that is a good idea

  • 98 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    Thankyou, my friend. Patience is most certainly a virtue. Unfortunately it has dwindled so much so that after 6 years it is a rare commodity in Newcastle.
    However, I ask you to be patient with those who want progressive change when they express their total disillusionment in this regime and talk of hope for an ambitious future.

  • 99 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    Sean

    You’re more than welcome to the blog, by all means piss in the wind by offering your opinions on here, for the fat amount of good it will do you. I will leave you, and whatever other happy clapper who wants to praise Ashley to rafters to it.

  • 100 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:11 PM

    93 toonking

    Exactly the way that I’m thinking. For me it’s all about what’s best for the club not just ranting because it makes me feel better. I understand why some fans feel the need to do it but it doesn’t mean that it’s right.

    I’d love to see a more ambitious owner and manager work in tandem to target the top 6 but we can’t always have what we want. And I’d rather we have what we have now rather than be where Blackburn or Wolves are.

  • 101 toon kk // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:12 PM

    We all have the same thing in common and support NUFC, so people are going to have a moan when things aren’t going right, we’ll also prase when we’re doing better. But as long as MA owns the club we’ll be run on a budget which will have to be managed by a yes man and work with average players.
    Its best not to expect to much but that doesn’t stop anyone wanting more from a big club struggling to compete with newly promoted clubs both financially and on the pitch.

  • 102 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    tinman
    their is a post right their 83 by daztoon
    who just picks the word daglish out of my whole post and ignores the similarity in that he is as much a legend to Liverpool as a play as he was a rubbish manager to Newcastle.
    so shearer should not be any different.

  • 103 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    daztoon

    I’m not saying KK couldn’t develop player. He had a fantastic skill of turning average players into really good team players. He was a fantastic manager at the time but times change. Football has moved on quite a lot and I just don’t think his methods work any more. It’s so much more tactical and based on stats than it ever was, KK always went on gut feel so much more.

    In fact it’s a shame for KK that he wasn’t born a couple of decades earlier, he could have been another Clough.

  • 104 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    TDS…you’re better off sticking with the ‘do nothings’ and the ‘tinpot’ regime, I think ;-)

  • 105 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:17 PM

    solano

    Those people who are so aggressive about wanting change would do well to listen to those of us who also want change but are able to see both sides of the argument. Nobody ever won a fight by refusing to understand or acknowledge their opponents position.

    I hope time4change is run by people with more vision than Ciaran/Ruddy. Mike Ashley would have him for breakfast like a little yappy Chihuahua…

  • 106 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    TDS

    Yeh i have seen you say you would back time for change.

    My opinion on it is that I think you have valid points just you give too much credit for the good ashley does and not enough critisim for the bad (just my opinion, neither better or worse than yours).

    I also think that just because we have a huge fan base and had our moments in the PL era it gives us no divine right to be up around the top 4 as some seen to suggest. Sure we all want more but demanding more is sometimes a bit too much….we should have a better owner willing to be honest and follow through with the plans he/his minions set out instead of baiting the fans.

  • 107 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    solano

    Well you saw my post on why I support this club I presume. That’s why I fight my corner on this blog.

  • 108 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    ToonDarnSarf

    There was no point at all about Dalglish and he was that bad a manager he won the double as player manager in his first season.Weather he inherited a team or not he won the double.He also had one of the best wining percentage records while their over the likes of Shankly and Paisley.
    Yes he was shite at the Toon because like Ashley he never shared the passion of the club always a Liverpool man.
    Like i said i never said Shearer would make a good manager i said he was given eight games to save an already sinking ship,so can`t be judged as a manager.Give the man a couple of seasons somewhere and then he can be judged

  • 109 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM

    daztoon 83
    you saying64 TDS consistant slag both shearer and keegan
    well shearer would not be slagged as a bad player TDS was just stating he is not yet a decent manager and that was why i used Kenny daglish in mypost because he is slated for bad management with us but he like shearer was a great player.

  • 110 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    TS

    The problem with the top 4 is that it’s very different to when it was when KK and SBR were there. Citeh and Chelski are artificially inflated and we can’t really compete with them unless we have huge investment and a sustained period of growth. Liverpool and Man Utd. are just huge clubs and Arsenal and Spurs have both had long periods of that sustained growth. So that’s 6 clubs that are currently miles ahead of us.

    I’ve slated Ashley plenty of times but my points hardly register considering the absolute vitriol that comes from some people on here.

  • 111 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    daztoon

    I’d love to see Shearer manage another club for a couple of seasons, I really would. But I don’t want to see him manager our club until he has earned his managerial stripes.

    You can’t slag off Dogleash for not having passion because he was a Liverpool man! That means you’re dismissing every potential manager unless he is a Geordie or has previously played for the club!

    Dogleash won with Liverpool because they had an amazing squad, he won with Blackburn because they had loads of cash. He’s not a terrible manager but he’s not a good one. And time has passed him by too, he should never have been appointed at Liverpool again.

  • 112 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:26 PM

    Did you get that Toonking give Shearer a couple of seasons as a manager then give an opinion.Not on eight games.

    TDS
    How can you say KK methods won`t work you don`t even know how he would have a team set out.Like you and I he will have watched a lot of games too and will probably know how to set up the bunch of players we have at the club,better than anyone of us.

  • 113 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    TDS

    I like to think I am open to discussion and if somebody really doesn’t agree with me and we are both banging our heads against a wall i’ll just try and walk away. I know you can’t change people’s opinions all the time as I don’t change mine everytime.

    I think what some fail to see is that point you make on wolves, leeds, pompey, etc. Some see it as we should be grateful to be in the prem league, which to some extent i agree with, but what I think you mean (correct me if i’m wrong) is not that we should praise ashley for not ruining us like those but that he could have done things a lot worse. Although we want better that doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate what we do have.

  • 114 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    toonking

    Once again ffs try reading i never said he slagged him off for being manager it was about Shearer having his say on the club keep up man

  • 115 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    daztoon

    I’m damn sure he’d be a better manager than either of us, but he wouldn’t really be competing with you and I for a job now would he?

    It is my opinion that KK’s methods are past it and I think his performances for England and City back that up along with the fact that nobody else went in for him after City or after us. Try asking fans of other clubs if they would like KK to manage them.

  • 116 ballerfan2 // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    What an entertaining thread and a perfect example of the personality of NUFC. Everyone has an opinion on everything and all are right – or wrong (as I’ve said before, it appears that all of our players have been the best and worst players on our books according to various people on this blog). Anyone who disagrees with anyone else is insulted for their opinion. TDS – you have got some time on your hands and decided to have fun with this thread. Am I right? If I am then you have hooked a goodly number for your trouble. Incidentally, in the main – 85%? maybe – I agree with your initial statement TDS. And if anyone wishes to question my allegiance to Newcastle United, I have been a supporter for over 55 years, am able to spell correctly the names of all the players to play or have played for the Mags, so I don’t I don’t need anyone to tell me I am an idiot, I already know it.

  • 117 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:33 PM

    TS

    Yes, pretty much. I don’t think Ashley deserves much praise for supporting the club when it got relegated because I think he had to take a large amount of the blame for us getting relegated in the first place and it was in his interest for us to get back to the PL anyway.

    But an owner who didn’t have that interest or didn’t have the money could have just stripped the club to pay the wages and/or run up loads of debt and we could have drifted like one of those other clubs.

  • 118 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:35 PM

    TS 106
    well put.
    we have a big support but who else is their to support. other teams could build a bigger stadium if they wanted. the premier league is itself divided into 2 leagues really top 5.5 (Liverpool replaced by city)
    then you have a race with the rest the reason it is so exciting is this league has got 5 teams who can compete for the title when most leagues only have 2.

    but from 7th-20th it is anyones game stoke Swansea west ham came up recently but finished very high.

  • 119 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:37 PM

    TDS…yes, I saw it with some interest. Thanks.
    I do feel you are a bit out of touch with the reality as it is in the city.
    What Time4Change will have to fight is not your minority opinion but the insidious apathy which has gripped most NUFC fans in the last few years.
    Ambition and action breeds progress in all walks of life and sit at home ‘do nothings’ or worse still, cynical snipers, encourage the continuation of an unacceptable status quo.
    I hope those who spout off about change actually commit to it and get actively involved not only to see this regime leave but to shape the future – when Ashley has gone – by engaging with new prospective investors/owners

  • 120 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    ToonDarnSarf

    Like i said that`s just your opinion and yours alone.You have absolutely no idea what system or who would be picked by KK so you can`t say his methods would be out dated.He took over from a modern day manager Big Sam and was turning the team around playing better football.
    Keegan wasn`t a manager before he took on the role at the Toon but it was like a duck to water. So to say he couldn`t adapt to the modern day is ludicrous he learnt his trade very quicky and saved the club.
    I agree Shearer should not have been made manager at least for the eight games yet another stupid choice by the FAT MAN

  • 121 HAZZY1 // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    I feel we should raid spurs this winter Kaboul if we can keep him fit would be ideal with mbiwa once colo goes also we were linked with lennon ive always liked him think he needs to move to progress in his career id also love us to go for a ST like Rhodes and sign Remy perm that would make all the difference also id love for Obertan to get a chance 2moz his pace would scare any team with Sammy on the other wing with Cisse hopefully scoring

  • 122 Transfer Sage // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:42 PM

    TDS

    Yeh. People don’t seem to realise that 99% of clubs come up and down. There are bigger clubs than us (not in current size, but say size in the 70/80s) who are no longer bigger than us because they dropped down…than could happen to pretty much any club apart from maybe 4/5 sides.

    For me you just have to enjoy the experience of football on the day of the game, whether we play for the prem title or we play for a league 2 title we still get to watch newcastle united play football. We all want more and the best for the club but got to be pragmatic and i don’t think that makes us any less of a fan.

    But I do want Ashley out not so much foot/financial reason but emotional reasons, he broke the signing sections, tries to dampen expectations with appointments of staff, uses wonga etc….thats my main gripe.

  • 123 DokToon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:44 PM

    gmorning all,

    seems more rift on here…

    TDS = glass half full
    ciaran = glass half empty

    me = just happy to support the toon, and thankful im not a manure, citeh or mackem supporter…

    were newcastle UNITED supporters, not newcastle factions, each has an opinion, end of the day, we desire to see our club do well, simple as that…

    sometimes this blog is like junior high school… :(

  • 124 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:45 PM

    solano

    You consider me a “cynical sniper” or a “do nothing”? I don’t consider myself as either.

    I don’t deny that I can be a little out of touch with the mood of the fans, which is why I come on this blog after all.

    But change for the sake of change is even more dangerous than doing nothing. I don’t know how many times I have to say that I think time4change seem to have the right idea.

  • 125 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM

    daztoon

    It’s not my opinion alone. I bet that most fans you ask would say that Keegan should not have been appointed. Like I said, try asking fans of other clubs if they would want Keegan as their manager.

  • 126 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    daztoon

    the full point about dalish was the status that kevin keegan is to us and alan shearer is as a player.

    maybe i could bring this manager into the argument

    morineo had a very good period in his first spell at Chelsea but questions are being raised already with his choices this season. so just because kevin keegan had a good period at Newcastle with a different board it does not gurentee that he would have did it the second time.

    as for the shearer daglish well my point is daglish is just a legend to Liverpool as a player we wouldn’t care one bit keegan would not be well respected to England fans when he walks out as manager ask any fan of a team which alan shearer did not play for and they will say get lost he will be rubbish as manager.

    the simple matter is that daglish keegan and shearer all have 1 thing in common they are legends so that team will rate them much higher.

  • 127 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    TS

    I’d be happy if Ashley leaves as long as we get a proper owner in and not just some dodgy consortium or two-bit company who want to saddle us with debt. That’s what I’m concerned about. If we’d been relegated with either of those in charge then we really could have ended up like Leeds or Portsmouth and tumbled down the leagues.

    SBR’s quote on this page sums it up I think. People say that Ashley is sucking the soul out of this club, but I say that he can’t.

  • 128 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:50 PM

    daztoon

    the full point about dalish was the status that kevin keegan is to us and alan shearer is as a player.

    maybe i could bring this manager into the argument

    morineo had a very good period in his first spell at Chelsea but questions are being raised already with his choices this season. so just because kevin keegan had a good period at Newcastle with a different board it does not gurentee that he would have did it the second time.

    as for the shearer daglish well my point is daglish is just a legend to Liverpool as a player we wouldn’t care one bit. Keegan would not be well respected to England fans when he walks out as manager. ask any fan of a team which alan shearer did not play for and they will say get lost he will be rubbish as manager.

    the simple matter is that daglish keegan and shearer all have 1 thing in common they are legends so that team will rate them much higher.

  • 129 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:52 PM

    ToonDarnSarf

    I`m sure quite a few fans would take Keegan as manager of other clubs.I`m pretty sure if you asked fans all over the world many more would have heard of Keegan rather than a modern day manager ie Pardew

  • 130 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:55 PM

    datoon
    well you say that
    but it’s like saying more fans will hve heard of Kenny daglish that who will have heard of kevin keegan.

  • 131 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    TDS….What conclusion do you want me to draw of you? I consider you to express your opinions far too often to be able to keep track of what you’re saying.
    It seems now you support ‘Time4Change’ but only yesterday you were sniping that they were tinpot! As far as I can see, a bunch of fans from different web sites etc have got together and are organising a lawful march. It’s hardly earth shattering in itself but symbolically it could be very important as it may lead to genuine solidarity in enacting positive change thereafter.
    As a Trust member, I do hope they too will see that fans have had enough and become active in recruiting and promoting the positives of a club which is ran by someone/group who will re-engage with the fans and the city.
    Ashley, after 6 years has had plenty chances and spurned them all in favour of pursuing an agenda which is detrimental to the general interests of the fans and the city.

  • 132 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:00 PM

    toonking

    We wasn`t even on about Shearer being manager.I will say it again try reading it was about comments made by shearer about the club.Do you want it in BOLD letters to understand.
    I`m pretty sure Dalglish would also be remembered by the fool fans for winning the double as manager for them.

  • 133 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    solano

    Perhaps you should read my posts rather than reading the posts of fools who don’t bother to read my posts properly and then argue with me based on half truths.

    I have made it quite clear that I consider many of the campaigns to be tinpot and that they couldn’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery, that is true. However, the first time I heard about time4change and saw what they stood for, I said I thought it was a good idea. If you have a bunch of tinpot organisations brought together under an organised banner then maybe their energies can do some good.

  • 134 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:07 PM

    DokToon

    Ciaran’s glass isn’t half empty, he doesn’t even have a damn glass. I talk to fans on here who I think have a glass have empty and we can at least discuss things properly. But there are some people who refuse to address others’ points and just keep banging on the same old tired drum.

  • 135 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:07 PM

    daztoon
    the full point my posts are showing is this is a different experience
    a manager is not the same job as a player

    a legend to one club can be worthless to another weather it is players or managers

    a excellent first spell in charge of the club doesn’t mean that he has an excellent second spell

    i myself was not talking about shearer alone i am talking about managers in general and legends

  • 136 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM

    the reason that i bring both shearer and KK is they are always brought up with this Ashley puppets chaos.

  • 137 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:13 PM

    toonking

    Forget it i give up,you will never get it, just like you didn`t get that you don`t need quick players to play pass and move football.Yer know the one where you said “We need more quick players like Obertan to play pass and move”.
    I gave up then as well lol.
    Time to go and enjoy some sun have a good day at least

  • 138 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    a bit of better news for you daz

    if morineo doesn’t start to improve things at Chelsea then i shall use him as the mimic of why KK first time success does not mean a second time gurentee.

  • 139 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    TDS. The only thing I see as being unequivically ‘tinpot’ is the regime:
    It has a 6 year history of lies; a Patsy Manager, an incompetent drunk as DoF, a payday loan shark company as main sponsor and an owner who “knows nothing about football” but sees child labour exploitation and using SJP as a giant advertising hoarding for his sports tat as wholly acceptable!
    If they aren’t reasons enough to march, I don’t know what are!

  • 140 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:19 PM

    The point about Shearer and KK is that it doesn’t help when legends of the club are at loggerheads with the owner. We all know that KK has a problem with Ashley given the fall-out that included a court case but he’s mostly kept his views to himself since then, and respect to him.

    But Shearer has spoken out against Ashley and that isn’t helpful. It just creates more divisions where fans (such as me) are actually seen as against Shearer when that’s obviously not true.

    It’s a bit like Maggie Thatcher speaking out against later Tory governments. A Tory legend doing that just causes divisions as some of her fans still in the party are torn between supporting the legend who has since moved on and supporting the party they still belong to.

  • 141 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:19 PM

    you are the one to forget it because i tell you now quick players are what get better passing only on the fifa can slow players do it.

    if we didn’t need quick players why would teams rest players so much and why do players need subbing in games tireness doesn’t affect them kicking a ball. just movement.

    answer that.

  • 142 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:20 PM

    Toonking

    Please don`t bother and one fact is that Mourinho was backed by his chairman and given a chance. Keegan wasn`t so we will never know weather he would have been a success or failure that wouldn`t hold up would it

  • 143 daztoon // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:21 PM

    toonking

    I can`t answer that i can`t stop laughing

  • 144 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:22 PM

    solano

    One thing that bugs me about that is JFK being called a drunk. Can anyone show me any proof of this?

    People still seem to think Gazza is fantastic and he had several chances to be a coach or manager, despite him being exactly as you describe sadly.

  • 145 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM

    TDS….so you don’t dispute any of the rest?
    Talk about picking out bits of posts and then bringing a random factor in ..like Gazza…is just ridiculous.
    If JFK wasn’t drunk in that talksport interview, then he has other serious health issues that render him totally incompetent for the role he was assigned.

  • 146 fatman // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:28 PM

    http://www.2shared.com/fadmin/53784772/eab6368d/mexican_midweek_scandal-8.pdf.html

    copy of this weeks Micky take on all things nufc related a downloadable pdf virus checked with the latest Norton update feel free to down load it and send to your friends the more its downloaded the more time will be spent on the next one, remember its just for fun and not to be taken seriously, and i will apologist in advance to some of those offended. the derby addition is starting to take shape.

  • 147 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:29 PM

    solano

    That doesn’t make him a drunk though! He just took an ill-advised interview.

    I don’t dispute the rest to be honest, although I’d temper down some of the points. I don’t believe “6 years of lies” is fair. There have been things that the club said they planned to do and they didn’t but that’s not necessarily a lie and it’s not to say they didn’t try to do what they wanted to do. Has anyone a the club said “We will sign…” and then we didn’t? I’m not sure…but even if they did, I bet other managers have done similar

  • 148 toonking // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:34 PM

    well in that case he is not the right manager for the job simple so like TDS said he was the stupidest of managers to appoint.
    so Newcastle fans like myself who know kevin keegan as a legend still would have preferred to not have seen him in the reappointed because it was the thing that got the chaos started.

    and theirs another thing which gets back to the legends points dalish got appointed as Liverpool manager for a second time as rafa fealt as though he had enough roy came it and things didn’t get any better. the board finally decided to sell and daglish was appointed but he had a much worse second time round.

    KK was simply a manager that we are close too so should not have been appointed.
    simple as that.

  • 149 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:36 PM

    Pardew alone has said umpteen times “we will sign…” and “we will not sell…” and then the club has done exactly the opposite!!!
    I’ve gotta go to work now, my friend, but I really do think you are out of touch with the 6 year reality of this regime….can you remember when they were proven to be liars in a court of law?
    Come back to me, when you read up…ttfn

  • 150 roy // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:46 PM

    We can safely say that history is proving how good Keegan’s team was. Now teams come to SJP expecting to win, yet were terrified to come here under Keegan, including Sir Alex, who said that Keegan’s team was the hardest team he played in the Premier league. High praise indeed.

  • 151 ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 3:51 PM

    solano

    I’m not sure that they were proven to be liars were they? They were proven to be in breach of contract as KK could reasonably assume that he would be given the final say on transfers and then they appointed DW to do this role without consulting with KK and obtaining his permission.

    And I think Pardew is too savvy to say “we will sign….” when we don’t. He says “I hope we will sign….” or “I expect us to sign…” but doesn’t commit because he can’t.

    As for “we will not sell…”…come on! That only happened with Carroll and anyone would have taken that money!

  • 152 Ciaran // Sep 24, 2013 at 4:04 PM

    Now you’ve gone and done it, you’ve officially killed the blog with your inane drivel.

  • 153 MacToon // Sep 24, 2013 at 4:28 PM

    ToonDarnSarf // Sep 24, 2013 at 12:19 PM

    and MacToon was nothing but abusive recently.

    ———————–

    I called you an ignorant gobshite, not so much abusive more an observation!

  • 154 MacToon // Sep 24, 2013 at 4:37 PM

    and for the record, I’ve never claimed to represent any group or fanzine on this blog. Tads said a few times because I posted some links from Maoc but other than that no one has posted here representing Maoc or #Time4Change.

    Practice what you preach and read before posting ;-)

  • 155 solano // Sep 24, 2013 at 5:27 PM

    TDS
    lie [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly·ing.
    noun
    1.
    a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood…..

    Now please read what the club admitted to in a court of law under oath!
    You can comprehend as well as read, I take it?

  • 156 BandB // Sep 24, 2013 at 5:59 PM

    TDSarf,

    I’ve had a few chats with you over recent months, which have stayed polite.
    But I do wonder now whether you are paying anything other than lip service to notion you are discussing Newcastle United.
    Several times you have compared the Time4Change umbrella to the Occupy Movement against the banking industry. You have made no bones about where your sympathies lie. It was a very political comparison.
    I have no doubt your support for Ashley (which is what it is) is because he is a bit of an Iron Man, prepared to stick it to types you hold in contempt.
    Which is fine. But you dominate the output on this NUFC blog with diatribes which don’t seem very motivated by any burning interest in football.

  • 157 MacToon // Sep 25, 2013 at 12:07 AM

    #TheEnd




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