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Newcastle’s Academy One Of The Best – Here’s Why

11:09 am, Wednesday, November 13th, 2013 by Ed Harrison · 82 Comments

While Newcastle have been criticized for not playing any Englishman at all in some of our lineups this season,   it seems like some of that criticism of Newcastle may be unfounded, and there’s an excellent article on this in the Shields Gazette today by Daniel Prince.

adam armstrong england armenia

Watch out for this lad
No it’s not a young Kevin Nolan – it’s 16 year-old Adam Armstrong


It turns out that research from CIES Football Observatory and Opta Pro, shows that Newcastle are the sixth best club in the Premier League for bringing club-trained players through to the first team.

This season Newcastle have had an average of 1.6 club-trained players on the pitch in Premier League games.

Club-trained players are defined as those who have played at the club for at least three years when they were between the ages of 15 and 21.

And in  Newcastle’s case that qualifies players like Tim Krul, Paul Dummett, Haris Vuckic, Shola Ameobi, Steven Taylor and Sammy Ameobi as all club-trained.

But just think how poorly clubs like Chelsea, Manchester City and others must do here – since they’ve brought most of their players in when they are the finished product, and pay huge fees for them too.

And before Manchester City were bought by a Billionaire Arab consortium in August of 2008, they had one of the best Academies in the country – but not any more – and they’ve spent over £800M on new players in the last five years. :(

In case you were wondering how City have become a top side – there’s your answer right there – and if a club like Scunthorpe United had spent the same amount of money since 2008, they would probably also be in  the upper reaches of the PL – it’s all about money these days.

Paul Dummett and Sammy Ameobi are two local youngsters on the verge of making the breakthrough to the first team, and we also have two Adams – 16 year-old number 10 Adam Armstrong and 18 year-old number 9 Adam Campbell who are both local lads, and very highly rated at the club.

1.6 club-trained players on the pitch on average this season is not great, but it’s a lot better than a lot of the top clubs in the Premier League, but we still need to do better and bring more of our top youngsters through the ranks and into the first team.

We haven’t done nearly enough of that in Mike Ashley’s reign at Newcastle.

What do you think?

Comments welcome.

Ian Begg is a reader who recently found out that his Mom was very ill, and he has to return to Australia. Ian has a Platinum Club season ticket that has £700 left on it, and he is willing to sell it for £550 or a best offer.

Please see if you can help Ian out, and you can contact him by email at ian_s_begg@hotmail.com – thanks.

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Tags: Adam Armstrong · Adam Campbell · Newcastle Academy · Newcastle U21





82 responses so far ↓

  • 1 wolfshead@toon // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    people saying pards cant handle europe if we had remy instead of cisse last season we would have turned befica over no problem

  • 2 wolfshead@toon // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    n* haha

  • 3 Hatem's better than Messi // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:18 AM

    Test comment.
    Getting duplicate comment error but neither are actually showing.

  • 4 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:19 AM

    My God it just gets worse.

    Our academy has chucked out 2 players who started on Sunday – Krul and Ameobi. Only 1 more academy player was on the bench – Sammy Ameobi. Shola is not good enough for the club, and the jury is out on Sammy.

    Swansea have a top class academy, as many of their young products are coming to the fore in the first team. Same can be said for Southampton who have regularly produced talent before selling them on, yet they still produce their own talent who are still at the club.

    Our academy is miles behind the likes of these clubs.

    Adam Armstrong – 16, scoring goals for u-21 and for England, but still remains to be seen if he can make the step up.

    Adam Campbell – Has went completely off the radar since Pardew built him up to be the next big thing. Needs loan time away from the club.

    Paul Dummett – Could be a decent first team player, needs game time ahead of Santon at LB.

    Haris Vuckic – would be gob-smacked if he even had a decent career with a PL club at this rate. Has no future at the club in my opinion.

    The likes of Remi Streete, Curtis Good, James Tavernier are all so far from the first team it is hard to tell how good they are.

    So remind me why our academy is one of the best?

  • 5 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    There’s a huge difference from bringing them through from academy to training with the senior squad to actually developing them into players

    This is where we fall down, the loan system is a powerful tool and one we fail to really use properly and most our academy players rarely make it past the prospect tag, imo

  • 6 Hatem's better than Messi // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    I still find it hard to read complaints about Man City and Chelsea’s spending.

    Scunthorpe’s fans must look at us and think exactly the same.

  • 7 Hatem's better than Messi // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:25 AM

    tads

    Too many lower league teams can’t afford to take in loan players.
    Then the club loaning wants their player to get guaranteed match time.
    Something not all managers are prepared to agree to.
    Plus 19 other Prem teams are looking to loan their players too.

  • 8 Yohan Kebab // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    adam armstrong is our first genuine hope of a top youngster unless someone makes a drastic improvement

  • 9 catchy in norway // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    with pardew in charge

    our young players don’t have a future,, full stop!!!
    they have to go other places to get games,

    that’s a fact

  • 10 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM

    Our academy is good. No doubting that really. But not for the reasons mentioned in this article. Krul and Forster are the only top class players to be ‘produced’ at the academy and progressed on to a good level. The coach that helped get them there was rewarded with the sack and replaced by Woodman, but also both had loan spells playing first team football when they were teenagers.

    We have consistently produced large numbers of youth internationals up till U19 level. We seem to peak at U17 level. I have said this before, but our 2 highest qualified coaches are at U15 and U16 level. Makes perfect sense then that they peak at that age before the old school coaching of Watson, Richardson, Beardsley, Stone and Carver get hold of them.

    I’d say our academy is decent, better than that at the younger age groups. Progressing them past the academy is a major fault of ours, and is costing some youngsters their chances at a career at a decent level. (Champ and higher) We are in severe danger of failing to do this again, either due to not improving the coaching, or not getting players game time at lower levels.

  • 11 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

    Hatem
    True on the guaranteed game time, that should never be a given!
    But the wages is negotiable, it’s benefiting both parties then some slack should be shown
    They shouldn’t nessicerally go to lower league either, bigi, sammy and fergie for me should of been touted round clubs like hull palace etc, Bolton used to do great business loaning off other prem clubs!

    I just don’t think we make the most of having an academy
    Someone asked the other day how obertan was getting in the team in front of HBA, from recollection obertan played a fair few reserve games to get back to fitness and was praised for his mentality and effort, so why not give lads like benny (who looks like could have a slight fitness issue) cisse Taylor a couple of games to get there edge back?
    The academy is a powerful tool I just don’t think we make the most of it!
    * This was in no way shape or form an obertan endorsement btw!!!!!

  • 12 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:38 AM

    Lilo
    I hate you, you always make my points so much better than i can you articulate git! ;)

  • 13 Charlie in the Gallowgate // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:55 AM

    I could be wrong has our academy had to come along way from when Kevin Keegan scrapped the reserves and did he also get rid of the youth teams and set up.

    I stand corrected if wrong

  • 14 Belfast // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:58 AM

    Our academy is poor. For how little we spend in transfer windows we should be seeing a lot more kids coming through. We must be one of the worst for producing good players.

  • 15 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    Tads,
    Haha, I promise I will try not to do it again!

  • 16 ilovetoon8788 // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    what happen to haris vuckic. completely gone in my opinion.

  • 17 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:06 PM

    Charlie,
    I’m not 100% but I’m fairly certain we didn’t scrap the youth teams under Keegan. The reserves went due to the need for them to play a percentage of games at SJP and Keegan didn’t want the ground to cut up, there was no such requirement at youths.

    It still caused a huge knock on effect though as unless by 18 you were good enough for first team, you didn’t get any actual football other than the odd training ground friendly.

  • 18 LEROI // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM

    On one hand we complain about lack of youngsters breaking into the 1st team then on other I’m the only person to mention using an academy player in a game against a poor team lower in the league when the RB spot needs covered.

  • 19 Charlie in the Gallowgate // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:11 PM

    Lilongwe

    Cheers for correcting me and yes it did create a huge knock on effect and which I think is still being corrected today.

  • 20 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:12 PM

    Lilo
    Lol you carry on mate always a good read!

    Belfast
    Sadly have to agree, considering it was benchmarked as a huge key to future success we see very little coming through, our best youngster (imo santon and bigi) have been bought in

    Although it is great to see players like sammy and dummett coming through, hopefully we can find a way to get lads like them some game time
    Although when we do produce talent we have struggled to keep hold if them (Carroll, Forster)

  • 21 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    Leroi
    Who? Please don’t say tavernier! Because it’s a false economy to simply play lads from the academy as opposed to bringing players through who are actually good enough

  • 22 bishopblaize // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    Let’s start seeing some of these lads on the Bench .. BUT

    What games would be best intergating them in?

    We can’t be handing away games in the matches we expect to be winning in like we have over past couple of Seasons.

  • 23 Nufc-83 // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:17 PM

    The best LB at the club for me is Haidara who impresses every time he steps foot on the pitch. I think he should be in at LB with Santon over at RB for Norwich.

  • 24 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

    Nufc 83
    Personally I like santon, the lad is still young and I’ve seen nowhere enough of haidara to say he’s first team
    For me santon has built up a fantastic relationship with goofy on the left

    Bishop
    We do seem to struggle to integrate players, thought they did it well with bigi last season, but we tend to try and bring to many through at once which is why I cringed when the club said the cups were a good chance to look at our youth and fringe players

  • 25 roy // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:47 PM

    Make the most of watching Remy, in a Toon strip as he is off. Pardew, is getting his bosses excuses in already that big clubs are watching him. Somebody should pull this oaf up short about if we are a big club or not, as he seems deluded that we are a Crystal palace sized club.

  • 26 Hatem's better than Messi // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    roy

    I’m not sure how he can walk into a full SJP and think we aren’t a big club.
    Our supporters make the club special.

    Pardew needs to remember that next time he lowers our expectations and with it our dreams.

  • 27 mindshaft // Nov 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    Sadly some big clubs are watching Remy who knows that if he has a good season at toon and a decent world cup he can pretty much go where he wants (and it’s unlikely to be his choice to stay at toon ) sad but that’s the reality of signing loan players

  • 28 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:01 PM

    “Enjoy him while he’s a Newcastle United player, let’s not worry about the future”

    You know who else would have said that? Sunderland would have said that about Welbeck. Wigan probably said it about Cleverley. Bolton would have said it about Sturridge.

    Are we no more than Sunderland, Bolton or Wigan? Shouldn’t we demand more than being someone’s stepping stone?

  • 29 toonincheek // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    Ciaran -

    I don’t like to think of NUFC as a stepping stone, but sometimes that’s the way it is.

    Take Remy. Even if he sees us as a stepping stone, would you rather have not signed him, given the goals he has scored?
    Of course we would all like to see someone signed permanently who can score those goals, but you gotta take what you can.

    Loans are definitely NOT part of NUFC stated strategy, but occasionally it can be the best option.

  • 30 Whumpie // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM

    Have all the academy bashers read the article? by a perfectly reasonable, objective measure our academy is currently the 6th best. room for improvement – especially after the 17-year-old stage – bur “awful”?

    Compared to what??

    Cairan at post 1: The fact that you can name 10 prospects of the top of your head says it all, doesn’t it?

  • 31 JackButler // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:15 PM

    The only top youngster we’ve got is Krul and we had to buy him in

  • 32 jimmysmith // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:15 PM

    If I was Adam Armstrongs’ dad, I’d advise him to wrap his boots in a hanky, tie the bundle to a stick to sling over his shoulder, and then set out on the long walk to Southampton, forthwith young sir!

  • 33 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:16 PM

    Toonincheek

    You have defined what is wrong with NUFC’s transfer strategy.

    We never had any intention of signing another striker other than Remy. Would I rather we didn’t sign Remy? No, he’s a fantastic player.

    Would I have also like to see 2/3 permanent signings who would have bolstered the squad immensely and not left us worrying about next summer as to who we will have to sign to replace Remy? You bet.

    We are left on a never ending loop of not having enough quality players. We sold Carroll, didn’t sign his replacement for 6 months. We needed an upgrade at RB, yet we didn’t sign Debuchy for another 6 months. We needed a replacement for Ba, yet we didn’t sign Remy until 6 months after, and he is only a loan deal!

    When Remy leaves, we might bring in one player, but that is not enough, because even with Remy in the squad we are still 1/2 players short of where we need to be. Shola is starting for heaven’s sake!

  • 34 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:20 PM

    Whumpie,
    “A perfectly reasonable objective measure of our academy”.

    Not really. Both Shola and Taylor made their debuts before Academies were academies, back when they were just youth teams. Take them 2 out, who many on here think shouldn’t be playing anyway and we slide massively down that table.

  • 35 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:20 PM

    Whumpie

    The reason I can name 10 prospects (although a number of them are over 20) is because I take a real interest in our club. I could name you some shockingly bad academy players, doesn’t mean we have a good academy.

    Little simplistic don’t you think?

  • 36 toonincheek // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:31 PM

    Ciaran,

    Maybe we put all our eggs in one basket, pursuing Remy, but all the indications were that he would sign for us permanently.

    He was persuaded otherwise by money (no criticism) at the last minute, leaving us with no real opportunity to pursue other (reasonably cheap) alternatives.

    OK, so there is a “weakness” in our transfer policy.
    We don’t pay top prices.
    That’s not news.
    How many under-performing mercenaries have we signed by paying over the odds?

    Full marks to our backroom team for identifying a top player, at a reasonable price and with no PL experience, who has since shown he can cut it in the PL.

    It was never practical to sign Remy on a permanent basis, given his possible prosecution on a serious charge.
    And – QPR did not want to let him go permanently for the £8 million they paid – he was worth more than that having proved himself in the PL.

    And I’m sure we would NOT have paid more than the £8 million that QPR paid, and as we had agreed, just on principle.
    Plus – QPR wanted to retain the option of keeping him if they got promotion.

    As I said, a loan option was the only real answer, even though that is contrary to NUFC stated policy.

    Let’s just enjoy hos goals, and his overall contribution, while we can.

    If a CL team comes in for him in the summer, and would no doubt offer higher wages, then for sure he is off.
    But – otherwise – we would be in a strong position as he is enjoying his time with us.

  • 37 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    Remy will never, in a million years, be staying with us. He has already proved himself to be a 10 million+ player. We will not pay that.

    We do not have a transfer strategy. If we did, we would not have signed a CM when we desperately needed a ST, RB and a CB in the summer of 2012.

    Our ‘strategy’ is, get them in cheap. That’s it.

    Our scouts can undoubtedly produce gems, it is the owner who then refuses to sign them.

    If there was a strategy, why did they let a RB and a utility player leave without bringing anyone in? We’re short of options at RB, clearly demonstrated by Debuchy’s suspension. What will we do if he gets injured?

    There is no plan. No roadmap for progress. It’s ad-hoc, made up and people are lapping it up.

    Given how it doesn’t really matter where we finish in the league – given MA’s unwillingness to invest in sustaining it – I find supporting the team an increasingly futile exercise, more to the point, the players are probably seeing playing for this club as an increasingly futile exercise.

  • 38 Novocastrian66 // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:48 PM

    In regards to the academy; it’s not just about developing players for Newcastle United or the Premier League but developing young lads into professional footballers. Newcastle have done well in that respect.

  • 39 Rotonda heights // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:50 PM

    SIX: Santon, Anita, Saylor, Tavernier, Jonas and Colo can all play RB.

    The players didn’t look too futile in the last 2 matches

  • 40 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:50 PM

    So Meulensteen has joined Fulham as Head Coach while Martin Jol retains the managers spot. Good appointment by Fulham as he is a top coach, but can’t help thinking this is the first gentle nudge of Jol out of the door.

  • 41 pottsclock // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    Jol will be gone soon I think.
    I have always struggled with Fulham’s policy of buying older players at low prices who are coming to the end of their career and getting a few extra years out of them. Only on rare occasions they have bought younger. It is playing with fire and they could only do it because they are in London.

  • 42 croftus5678 // Nov 13, 2013 at 1:59 PM

    guys in fairness i think its the quality of our youth that has come on leaps and bounds tbh !

    go back through the years to for example shola/saylor before comparing our youth system of today ! these were our best youth players coming through the ranks and even though they have the experiance ect now we can see how poor we used to be in youth.

    tav the same ! a few years ago we was all screaming he’s already good enough but a few years on we now have 16/17yo+ who are without doubt a hell of a lot better.

    and now with our current team ! what player/players would you want replace with a youngster ? our first team has main international players so would it be right to bench them and play a young inexperianced vukic in place of cabaye or sissoko or would we fans be on pards back screaming he’s not playing the best team ?

    imo we have a fair few ready for prem action in vukic/fergie/dummett/good/bigi/sammy not sure on (streete/cambell/armstrong/newton) but unless they show the experiance and quality of our very best then they simply wont play but it doesnt mean its failed its just our first team has got a lot better.

  • 43 DokToon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:00 PM

    nothing like coming on here and seeing the daily doom and gloom that is our ciaran lol…

    ithink we could win the prem, the CL, and FA cup in one season and ciaran, youd be ruing the day we lost a match in ought 2 lol :)

  • 44 Mister Tuff // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:04 PM

    Posters have mentioned about hope and strategies. A supporters hope -is dreaming about playing great football, equaling the best, maybe winning something, creating superb entertainment – hope would be keeping those dreams alive.
    As for a strategy – we had heard about a five year plan, that seems to have died, we’ve heard about financial stability – very laudable – cannot disagree. What about a strategy on the playing side -or a style or philosophy -heard nothing about that.
    So what is the hope and strategy as far as the club are concerned – well that’s easy as there is evidence at hand.
    I post this not with the intention of being accused of being negative and not a true supporter -and therefore attract the usual insults and lies from windbags like bills -son – backed up by other windbags.
    Anyway – I believe the following quote should remind us all about the questions posed. Quotes are by Sir John Hall (not me).
    “I was told that the man behind the deal was Mike Ashley and I sat with his representatives over three days thrashing out a deal. I was keen to know why they wanted the club and they were quite honest. They wanted to market their sports goods in the Far East and would use the club to help do this.”

  • 45 DokToon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:08 PM

    mr tuff, let me be the first to say youre incredibly negative and not a true supporter…

    ok thats out of the way :)

  • 46 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:08 PM

    Croftus
    Sorry mate but have seen nothing to suggest that vuckic ferguson or good are prem quality!
    Vuckic, how can anyone say what quality this lad is? When has anybody seen vuckic play more than 1-2 games in a row to make that judgement
    He had a loan spell at Cardiff, not for a full season, and done okay, to say he’s prem quality imo is a huge stretch
    Fergie, tbh, looks very at home in the championship and has struggled to hold down a starting spot in his second season there
    As for Curtis Good he’s had a short spell at a league one club playing LB, massive stretch and has been nowhere near the first team

  • 47 DokToon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    that sir tuff, was a comment meant as humor, :)

  • 48 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:12 PM

    Croftus,
    Ferguson has started one of Birmingham’s last 8 games. Prem ready??

    By what you are saying, that our first team is too good for our youngsters that shows we are either failing to produce good enough players, or wasting valuable resources on a pointless exercise.

    Man U won the title one year, then runners up, then brought 5 kids through and won the title. Are we saying that their first team was rubbish to be able to bring kids through, or was it a sign of their success at youth development?

  • 49 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:19 PM

    It is safe to say that Colo, Jonas, or Taylor will not be playing RB (or should not be playing RB)

    Anita can play RB, and I would prefer him there to Santon, but our lack of natural RBs at the club is shocking.

  • 50 croftus5678 // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    @44 mister tuff

    thinking realistically thats spot on tbh.

    we all know ashleys in it for the money (not the money at the club but the money he can make from his business using us as advertising ! so we support our own financials each year losing some till he gets every penny back he has put into the club.

    unfotunatly it will always be like this untill he’s clawed back his money (then we may see a few more mil availible through what the clubs generated itself) or he sells it but i doubt when he’s got so many millions a year through free advertising that he would consider that unless it was a stupid offer.

    so i personally look at the positives that our team does get stronger by the season (through whatever means) and just keep hoping we generate enough money to pick up some more bargains to improve our team greater with the funds we have !

    i would like to know if tv money has been paid yet though and am wondering what will happen with that if anyone knows ?

  • 51 ToonDarnSarf // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    I see this blog has been Ruddied again…

    Give the man CL football and he’d whinge that we’re not pushing for the title.

    I think you’re bitter you didn’t pick Man Utd as your team…

  • 52 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    Croftus,
    The big money TV deal is paid out at the end of the season and is dependent on position and appearances on TV.

  • 53 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    TDSarf…I have to say, I think that is a completely unfair assessment of Ciaran.

    Yes he is very vocal and no he doesn’t like how the club is being run or the ambition it is showing.

    However, to hint that he is some sort of glory hunter is nonsense in the extreme.

    It wasn’t that long ago that he was on here, part of a silly thing called optimism valley and would take on anyone who thought the club wasn’t progressing.

    He no longer feels that way, but does that make him someone who’d be better supporting Man U or bitter that he didn’t chose to do so?

  • 54 ToonDarnSarf // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:31 PM

    The article provides a perfectly valid stat to back up the assertion that we have the 6th best youth academy in the PL, yet some idiots ignore this stat and still argue.

    As well as the players we’ve had in our first team, we’ve also produced Carroll and Forster.

  • 55 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:31 PM

    Ahhhh sh*t he’s off his fence again someone get the broom!

    Agree mind you!

  • 56 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    Ibiza

    Appreciate it pal. I’m not going to dignify his nonsense with a response. It is clear to everyone how much I love Newcastle United. Don’t think the same can be said for him though.

  • 57 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    Tads…It’ll take more than a broom mate.

    TDSarf…On the academy. I can certainly see that perhaps people criticize it too harshly…it’s not terrible. However, as we know, stats don’t account for everything, otherwise we made the biggest mistake letting Simpson leave on a free. Best RB in the league after all.

    Middle ground people.

  • 58 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    Ciaran…No problem, invoice is in the post. I’m not going to be hypocritical here. TDSarf talks sense on a lot of issues as far as I am concerned.

    Sometimes perhaps a little too rational in his thinking, but I don’t consider that a crime. We all view things differently.

    Personally, would just love all the little digs to stop, but then again, there are plenty of other things I’d like in life :)

  • 59 croftus5678 // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    @48 lilong

    fair point on fergie with birm but he’s internationaly ready and when i watch him play for ireland he looks quality enough imo.

    and i wouldnt expect a youngster to come straight into our team and be better than full international player but that doesnt mean its wasted or that they are not good enough does it ?

    manu case was a good one also but that was fergie and tbf the prem doesnt have any more of those (+ manu/chelsea/liverpool/manc are paying 10+mil for there youngsters now not the free-1mil/2mil we pay)

    most young lads dont make it with any club and end up playing at lower leagues so i think the players we have and have coming through near worthy enough to play for us is a good thing imo.

  • 60 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    Does anyone else think that these stats fail to count for whether the academy players/club trained players, making it to the 1st team were any good or not?

    One could argue that the only reason Shola, Sammy, or Steven Taylor are getting anywhere near the 1st team is because we have a squad seriously lacking in quality.

    If we had proper investment, these 3 would not be near the 1st team, which would surely impact upon those results who would indicate we have the 6th best Academy in the PL.

    Stats can be manipulated, and do not show the true facts.

  • 61 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    indykaila News ?@indykaila 18m

    Get in! I’m ready to break my world exclusive. Expect the unexpected. Story to hit UK media very soon. Coming up within the hour. #65mbid

    It could be us lads! Ha.

  • 62 ToonDarnSarf // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    Ibiza

    I actually thought you were being sarcastic to begin with…

    Anyone with extreme views is frustrating. I’ve never felt under MA that we’re destined for great things but neither do I feel that the club is doomed. With our club, I think there’s always a small percentage of crazy optimists and a small percentage of crazy pessimists. They’re as mad as each other, impossible to debate with and often the same damn people. Even when they say something of value, it’s often drowned in masses of irrational and misguided rantings.

    I simply cannot have a discussion with someone who reads an article including a fact to back it up and then argues with the article while completely ignoring the fact.

    He reminds me of Man Utd fans who complain when they don’t win the league. I chose to be a Newcastle United supporter and I did it for greater reasons than expecting us to progress every year.

  • 63 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    Well I try to be civil to Newcastle United fans, which is why I have no problem being nasty to TDSarf :D

  • 64 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:40 PM

    TDS
    Once again, taking a point to the extreme

    The article points out, we bring players through to the first team, it in no way states were bringing through and developing first team players

    We’ve seen players in the past bought through due to injuries and squad size
    There is also numerous players that have come through and been released or moved through not making the grade

    So before labelling everyone who disagree’s with you as idiots maybe you should also look at the stat, which is simply saying we put the 6th highest amount of youth players into the senior squad, not that we have been successful in producing senior team players

  • 65 DokToon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:40 PM

    whoa,

    calling anyone a manure supporter is fightin words!!!

    i do get ciaran,he has a true passion for our club, and i do read all his posts. though with all due respect my friend, id love to see a little more positivity outta you, so shape up there ciaran :)

    dont make me come over there and drink you under the table and embarrass you in front of your pubmates lmao

  • 66 croftus5678 // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    @52 lilong

    cheers for that was hoping we would be able to spend it in jan for remy ect :-(

  • 67 DokToon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    ibiza,

    you are on daily bikini watch, youre a toon supporter, what more could you possibly want?? :)

  • 68 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:43 PM

    Dok

    I’d love to be more positive about the club, I really would, but it won’t be happening any time soon. Even positive results leave a kind of melancholy behind because even with good results, even with a good league finish, MA is going to undo it all again by not investing to progress.

    As for drinking me under the table? Challenge accepted ;) haha

  • 69 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:44 PM

    TDS,
    A perfectly valid stat to back u the assertion we have the 6th best youth academy? Give it a rest mate. You only like stats and articles when they suit you, any others and they aren’t relevant.

    The last time Krul was involved with our academy was January the season we went down. Taylor and Shola even further back. Why don’t we go further back and point out how well we brought through Hughes, Watson, Elliot, Clark. Hang on, Gazza and Waddle came through as well.

    Of the players who have featured for our academy since promotion, they have played 254 minutes out of a possible 10,890. Southampton do that virtually every game…..

  • 70 ToonDarnSarf // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM

    Ibiza

    The job of the academy is to provide players to the first team or to sell on. Krul, Forster, Saylor, Shola and Carroll are all PL players and Sammy and Dummett are on the verge.

    When you look at other PL teams, especially the bigger ones, many of their so called youth players were bought from lower league clubs for good money when they were 18 or 19. I’d like to see us do more there but the money has been needed for the first team.

  • 71 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM

    Ok fine then, a broom with a picture of JFK and MA modeling the bit at mankini pinned on the end

  • 72 Mister Tuff // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM

    dok toon – you sir are a bounder and a cad. Whilst gentlemen should not be seen to be engaging in brawls with ruffians, sometimes honour has to be restored. I have now made arrangements to get the next steamer from Southampton to the Colonies in order to restore my honour. I will be accompanied by my butler, Hargreaves, my ever faithfull retainer, who will act as my second. We will be staying at the Waldorf Astoria. In the meantime please accept my card:-
    https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6493461760/h50317390/

  • 73 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:47 PM

    Lilo
    “Of the players who have featured for our academy since promotion, they have played 254 minutes out of a possible 10,890. Southampton do that virtually every game…..”

    Seriously? Wow that’s actually shocking!

  • 74 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:47 PM

    TDSarf…Me, sarcastic? What on Earth gave you that idea? :)

    What defines an extreme view then? Some on here would claim you’re views can be extreme.

    I don’t have an issue with you not wanting to debate with Ciaran, I think he feels the same way. But surely you can appreciate that if you single him out, which you do, then you are inviting discussion?

    I’m talking to you now, but please don’t think I’m singling you out. This goes across the board.

    Sometimes, a little understanding of the person helps. We all know on here that Ciaran wasn’t always anti regime, but he has ended up there. Why?

    Rather than branding him like a Man U fan, can you not see how he’s got to where he is?

    I really don’t know why I’m bothering with this :)

    You two do what you want. Back to football.

    What straight up fact is it that’s being ignored? That we’ve had 1.6 players play in each PL game this season? That is just a snapshot of the whole situation, as with most stats (not facts). As Ciaran has pointed out, it doesn’t really reflect on quality or standard.

  • 75 Ciaran // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:48 PM

    Tuff

    Give that rapscallion a jolly good thrashing.

    Huzzah!

  • 76 ToonDarnSarf // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:48 PM

    TADS

    Eh?

    “…we bring players through to the first team, it in no way states were bringing through and developing first team players”

    What’s the difference? Our youth team is producing players that play in the first team.

  • 77 pottsclock // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:48 PM

    I’ve been called a few things in my time but never a supporter. That’s uncalled for.

  • 78 pottsclock // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    ..never a ManU supporter

  • 79 Lilongwe Geordie // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    Croftus,
    As I said earlier, I think the academy is okay, no real problems with it, it is what happens from 16/17 onwards which is where I say we fail.

    These kids sit in our ‘development squad’ and U18′s being coached by a poor standard of coach. I agree, they shouldn’t, unless they are a one in a million type, be ready at 18/19. But this is why we should be working hard to get them game time elsewhere. The coaching at NUFC isn’t good enough to make up for the lack of game time.

    For me, Ferg, Tav and Sammi will probably miss the boat. The 3 of them could easily be playing league 1 or lower in a couple of years because the club failed to give them opportunities elsewhere, or have a proper development strategy.

  • 80 Ibizatoon // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM

    Tads…Sounds…ermmm…delightful?

    Dok…Ah yes, bikini cladded girls and NUFC…that’s my life! I’m going to go and cry a little :)

  • 81 toonarmydownsouth // Nov 13, 2013 at 2:54 PM

    TDS
    Not there not, not in the slightest
    A majority Of these players don’t make it past training with the first team and the odd cup cameo
    Which is actually what the debate has been about before your rant

  • 82 lesh // Nov 13, 2013 at 5:05 PM

    ‘We haven’t done nearly enough of that in Mike Ashley’s reign at Newcastle’.

    We haven’t done nearly enough in anything positive in Mike Ashley’s reign at Newcastle!!




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