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News and Commentary On Newcastle United Football Club By Ed Harrison, A Proud Exiled Geordie And Lifelong Fan

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Newcastle To Receive Big Bid For Striker This Week?

9:04 am, Tuesday, February 18th, 2014 by Dr. Ed Harrison · 102 Comments

There is news that the Russian side Rubin Kazan have failed in their bid to sign 25 year-old PSV Eindhoven striker Tim Matavz, and their next target could well be Papiss Cisse of Newcastle.

papiss cisse stoke penalty

Papiss Cisse – scoring penalty against Stoke City

There’s still about ten days of the Russian transfer window left, and they could bid at any time, but if they are to move  for Cisse, we would expect it would be sooner rather than later.

We cannot imagine that Papiss Cisse would want to play in Russia, but he may not get the choice, and if a bid of around £10M comes in for the Senegal striker, he could leave Newcastle.

There are reports in Russia that Kazan could make a bid for the Newcastle striker, but Papiss will not leave unless there’s a substantial bid for him.

With the very negative reaction to the sale of Yohan Cabaye from Newcastle fans, the club may want to think twice about selling a second top player this month, but when did the fans’ reaction ever mean anything to owner Mike Ashley?

It’s clearly Newcastle strategy that if the club get a good bid for any player at Newcastle, that meets their expectations, they will sell, whenever that is, and whatever negative effect it may have on the team.

And there’s something very wrong with that – if indeed we are trying to build a top team on Tyneside.

However,  Papiss is the third choice striker right now behind on-loan strikers Loic Remy and Luuk de Jong, and he may not get too many games at Newcastle for the rest of the campaign, if the two top strikers remain fit.

What do you think?

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Tags: Loic Remy · Luuk de Jong · Newcastle News · Papiss Cisse · Premier League · Transfer News and Rumours



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102 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Graeme // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:07 AM

    The fans opinion makes absolutely no difference – if a big enough offer is put on the table, Cisse will be offski, no question about it.

    Never mind the quality, feel the wonga!!!

  • 2 Nufc-83 // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:15 AM

    Get rid of him one of the worst footballers to ever play in the premier league.

    ian7523 // Feb 18, 2014 at 1:52 AM

    Sorry, this is off-topic, but does anyone know what has happened to Bigirimana? Is he injured?

    There was a report out a few weeks ago that he has gone backwards in his development and it looks as if he wont make the grade unless something drastic happens. Pity as he looked like a real prospect last season (he has not been injured and has been playing in u21 most of the season).

  • 3 anthc // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:17 AM

    10 million? We’d be mad to turn that down. Bye cisse thanks and good luck although the casino will be sad to see you leave!

  • 4 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:18 AM

    NUFC 83,
    He is injured at the minute which is why he isn’t currently involved. He got injured early to mid Jan.

  • 5 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:22 AM

    lilongwe

    any idea why he wasn’t involved before that? couldn’t even get a place on the bench which i find odd after his form last season.

  • 6 Nufc-83 // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:27 AM

    Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:18 AM

    NUFC 83,
    He is injured at the minute which is why he isn’t currently involved. He got injured early to mid Jan.

    He has not been involved all season and has played in the u21′s for most of it with no club willing to loan him. Seems clear the report about him going backwards was more than likely correct.

  • 7 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:30 AM

    Sage,
    I’d guess the number of players who play centre mid. He didn’t play much last season after the arrival of Sissoko. This season we have had Cabaye, Tiote, Anita and Sissoko available for the centre mid role. Bigi should have gone on loan, but I read somewhere that he turned down the chance as he wanted to fight for his place.

  • 8 Nufc-83 // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:33 AM

    http://www.thejournal.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/mark-douglas-gaels-tale-should-6684677

  • 9 Himanshu Dhingra // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:33 AM

    ED

    You need to keep up!

    Matavz failed his medical. the deal was agreed 8 mill euro

  • 10 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:35 AM

    lilongwe

    Yeh I guess that could be why, but when we were using all of those players in the starting 11 surely he should have been worth a place around the squad.

    He didn’t look out of place last year.

  • 11 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:38 AM

    NUFC 83,
    He hasn’t been involved as we have/had too many central players as it was. The report (I guess you are talking about the Journal article) has no real evidence or quotes, just speculation based on past players and the good old mysterious club insider. A player used to first team football will stall if they don’t continue to get first team football, that is fairly obvious.

  • 12 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:41 AM

    NUFC 83

    Actually…I’d be inclined to believe Lilongwe rather than that article. I’ve seen plenty of articles like that with agendas…and those agendas are normally to slag off Mike Ashley.

    If Bigi doesn’t make it then he can join the hundreds of other players who look fantastic in the PL when they’re young and then disappear due to lack of progress, fitness issues, injuries or personal issues.

    And considering we had Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko, Anita and Ben Arfa ahead of him and he’s been injured since Cabaye left…well I’d say there’s still time.

  • 13 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:41 AM

    Sage,
    But look at the midfielders, if Tiote was injured, Sissoko goes to centre mid, Ben Arfa comes in on the wing. Fans would have been up in arms if Bigi had played and HBA continued on the bench. The only player he could realistically push out is Anita, but for me they are different players, and when Anita played it was as part of a three and he was very effective there.

    If he was fit, I would have no doubt that he would be ahead of Gosling and Marveaux in the squad, and possibly started the last couple in Tiote’s absence.

  • 14 Nufc-83 // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:42 AM

    To me he would have certainly been sitting on the bench if he had continued to develop as per last season. Maybe he has not regressed as much as that article suggests but regardless of this he needs to be playing first team football – myself i would have forced the lad out on loan.

  • 15 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:45 AM

    lilongwe

    That’s the issue though…fans would be up in arms….shouldn’t come into it, the manager should do what he thinks is best, not what we think. (which i guess he is doing)

    But I just feel bigi looked really good in the middle last year, certainly no worse than sissoko or anita have done in the middle. I’m not saying to start him, but surely worth a look in for 10/20 mins off the bench in games we are winning to close them out?

    Just my view anyway, out of all the kids he was the one who looked ready.

  • 16 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:46 AM

    lilongwe

    I agree about the loan too, he should have gone out on loan for the first half of the season, shouldn’t have been given much option really…just told he was going out on loan and disagreeing would possibly harm his future here and hinder his development.

    Wanting to fight for your place is admirable, but pardew isn’t one for rotation so he should have been out.

  • 17 Laurent Robert 32 // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:47 AM

    Cisse has been Pardewed. Plain and simple.

    If we don’t create him chances in the box, he’ll hardly score. Put Andy Cole in our team and he wouldn’t either. Why? Because he needs service. Pardew doesn’t base his team round providing service INSIDE the box. He contains and looks for a lucky effort on goal.

    The system is making him look poor. Remy also had his longest period without a goal. Long shots and wonder goals only last so long.

    People say this player and that player haven’t played well over a period of time… when you have an inept manager at the helm, that is what you get.

    Good managers get average players playing well and very good players playing really well. Poor managers like Pardew brainwash some fans into thinking the players aren’t good enough.

  • 18 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:48 AM

    NUFC-83,
    You can’t force him to go on loan. If the lad doesn’t agree to it, he doesn’t agree to it. Abeid did the same at one point, last year maybe? His development stalled massively, but this season he has done very well on loan. He may well come back and play a part next year now, despite being told last summer he was finished at the club. So taking the word of an anonymous club insider/’someone with influence at Newcastle’ who isn’t even quoted directly lacks a lot of credibility.

  • 19 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:52 AM

    Sage,
    I agree, he looked decent last year, and held his own. But not to the point of dropping an in form Tiote or Cabaye, and we know Pardew likes Sissoko a lot, so he would be given the central berth over Bigi every time. I think it is just a case of there being too many in his position.

    As I just said you can’t force him to go on loan, maybe they could threaten him, but then you run the risk of upsetting and losing a player you think has a future.

  • 20 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 9:54 AM

    Bigi looked good when he played last season, so did Simpson and Perch and both of them are back in the Championship.

    It’s funny how some people slate some of our current players for being Championship level, let some people also wish we had Simpson and Perch back…

  • 21 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM

    TDS

    some do, but that doesn’t mean they are the same people, can’t just generalise like that. Also people think the young lads will develop and improve where they think perch/simmo have hit peak at that level.

    lilongwe

    I agree you can’t force him, but surely if you tell him he wont play here then he would go? Unless the lads a bit dim. He’s wasted a year of his career by doing this.

  • 22 Blackley and Brownlie // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:03 AM

    Pardew will be working hard all week to dream up excuses for this coming Sundays performance. If we get hammered, what then? Will his excuses wash? Can his apologists help him?

  • 23 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:07 AM

    Sage,
    I agree that it makes no sense from the pint of view he needs games to progress. It doesn’t necessarily mean he is a bit dim though, it could just mean he had absolute confidence in his own ability to force his way in. He could have looked at how poor Tiote was last year, and Cabaye under performed and wanted away, and thought if Tiote doesn’t up his game, or Cabaye leaves before deadline day in August, then he is good enough to play.

    Once deadline day passes, and Tiote hits form, most clubs at the level Bigi would be looking at will have there squad sorted, and no longer be interested.

  • 24 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:08 AM

    I’m not a fan of the phrase ‘pardewed’….why is there no responsibility on players to make sure they improve?

    Cisse has an awful touch and passing, why doesn’t he spend an extra hour working on it, developing that area of his game so he can fit in with the way the team play?

    There is an argument if we pick him we should set the side up to play to his strengths, but he still has responsibility to improve.

    Look at willo, during his time out the team he has refocused, cut out a lot of the silly errors and is now much more confident playing the ball out from the back into midfield or to the fullbacks.

  • 25 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:11 AM

    lil

    maybe i was a bit harsh but pardew or coaches should be saying, we have x, y, z in your positon, at best you are the 5th choice centre mid, we need you to go out on loan. If they did do this and he chose to stay I don’t think he is that clever.

    A lot to be said to be confident in your own ability, can’t fault him for that, but also need a touch of realism and he should see how well a loan move works to get people game time in first teams.

  • 26 Laurent Robert 32 // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:11 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD4QpwPahpM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Look at Cisse’s goals in Germany in this vid. All but 1 (19 yards out) were scored inside the box.

    The lad is a poacher finisher. Don’t expect him to be thoughtful in build up play etc. He finishes chances, that is what he’s good at.

    Ruining his natural belief and understanding by playing him on the wing and giving him no service is Pardew’s fault. Nothing short of a disgrace. Tevez on the wing as well as not playing him is confirmation of his clueless offensive management.

    He’s wasting our attacking players. Somehow he can make Ben Arfa a scapegoat too.

    I can’t believe people are still brainwashed by Pardew. Look at the patterns on play, the movement, where chances are created, how they are created, how many players go forward and overlap, one-twos, triangles… the reasons why they play poorly are found in those areas.

    He’s wasting very good players and it’s such a sad sight to see.

  • 27 Greebol1892 // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:11 AM

    Laurent Robert 32 @ 17

    Wholeheartedly agree 100%.
    Pardew’s system (shite) is more suited to a big CF bringing others into the game. Cisse plays on the shoulder and always looks for runs in behind but frequently ends up offside because our supply line is woeful:- relying on individual skill, set-pieces or pot-shots from outside the box. Cisse is a proven quality finisher but devoid of confidence because we don’t play 4-4-2 (he needs a supporting 2nd striker) nor do we play to his strengths.
    For some people to say he’s the worst striker we ever had or one of them; obviously they never saw Frank Pingel, Andreas Andersson nor Stephane Guivarc’h………
    Sadly, Cisse will never flourish under Pardew so he should go.
    We still have strolla, who will get an extension…… ROFL!

  • 28 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:13 AM

    laurent

    I agree I don’t think we create anywhere near enough in the final third, we don’t make many good chances but we did against spurs, just never took them.

    We need to do more but cisse should also be working on his all round gameplay too.

  • 29 Laurent Robert 32 // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:13 AM

    Transfer, Pardewed is a term meaning he has taken a good player and through poor systems and interlinking, made them look worse than they actually are. My pals and I refer to it quite a bit. :-)

  • 30 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:14 AM

    laurent

    I think the same could be said of a lot of managers who don’t get the best from players though, not something exclusive to our manager…although he does excel in it.

  • 31 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:15 AM

    Sage,
    I agree with that. I don’t think Pardew is a great coach, nor Carver or Stone, but we have players that struggle with some of the basics. That isn’t the coaching, that is just plain laziness and a lack of effort on their part.

    Cole was mentioned earlier, when he was at Newcastle he was a finisher, nothing more. When he joined Man U he struggled initially, and spent a while out of the team. When he came back in 6 month’s or so later, he was a much better all round player and fitted perfectly into the team. Yes, some coaching will have come into it, but I remember him saying at the time that he did extra training sessions every day to improve the areas of his game that he needed to get back his place.

    how often o we hear of our players putting in that sort of effort?

  • 32 North Atlantic Magpie // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:17 AM

    Get rid of Cissé ASAP!!!

  • 33 Greebol1892 // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:17 AM

    TS

    Strongly disagree Cisse has an awful touch and is an awful passer. Not the best but if only we could play to his strengths and see him with a sprinkle of confidence. I think he would be ideal with LDJ once Luuk gets up to the pace & fitness. Not under Pardew though.

  • 34 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:18 AM

    TS

    I’m not saying they are the same people, although I’d bet that some of them are.

    My point is that there is a vast range of opinions on our players and manager and extremes are unnecessary. Usually the manager gets it right, have we let anyone leave who has gone on to excel elsewhere? I can only think of Forster and that’s only in Scotland plus we couldn’t have kept Krul and Forster until now.

    I haven’t heard of top 10 PL teams trying to bring Best, Perch or Simpson back to the PL…

  • 35 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:21 AM

    Why does any fan want to see any of our players sold? He could come off the bench this season to score a crucial goal. I’d rather have that extra competition up front than £10Min the bank.

    Replacing him in the summer is a different matter though…

  • 36 Lilongwe Geordie // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:23 AM

    Laurent,
    But how many poacher type strikers play at the top level these days? Almost all the top strikers have much more to their game nowadays. Either work rate, hold up play, link play, etc. Dzeko is probably the closest to it, but he is also a far better all round player than Cisse.

    I agree, he is a good finisher, and would do okay at a club that plays to suit him. But that isn’t us, or any top team. Hence only Russian and Turkish clubs are seriously interested.

  • 37 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    TDS

    fair point, Idon’t think many of our players are good enough for the top sides, only a couple but ultimately not many are capable of that step up and we are peak of their careers really.

    but yeh, we don’t sell our best players and if we do we get good money in (just need to use that quicker really).

    lilongwe

    I remeber cole at man utd getting much better, been watching classic matches on sky recently and some of his play was fantastic when at man utd.

    Roy hodgson did an interview with clive woodeward, interviewed each other at the same time, and hodgson said it was easy to spot which players do the extra training and which just go home as soon as they can.

  • 38 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:47 AM

    TS

    I think Krul, Debuchy, Tiote, Sissoko and Remy would attract interest from the top teams in the PL. Still too early for the likes of Santon and Anita I think and Colo would have been good enough a couple of years ago.

    I’m not worried about us losing any player who isn’t good enough for the top 10 of the PL. I’d rather see us playing a prospect than the likes of Perch, Best or Simpson. That is assuming we have the prospect in our squad…

  • 39 beermonkey // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:49 AM

    I will agree with those that say cisse should have worked to improve

    but with remy in the squad we could have set up the team like we did when ba was pushed out left
    this created lots for cisse

    surely its better to play to a players strengths that we own and up his value rather than play a loanee that has no intention of joining us and set for him
    makes no sence
    maybe its something to do with the Wonga deal when he was either after leaving or after more cash

    on bigi given last seasons performances he should have been automatic bench player and been given lots of time from the bench this season more so given the fact that cabs was striking
    young Sammy the same, been good improvement from him this season but 3 starts and a few subs is not enough to help bring these players
    and if goofy hadn’t got injured Sammy would never had played
    its about managing the squad and pardew for what ever reason just don’t do it

  • 40 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    With Cabaye in the team a front-three of Goofy, Remy and Cisse should have worked as Cabaye took control of midfield, Goofy and Remy worked the channels and came into the box when required and Cisse provided predatory movement in the box. However…I never saw that actually work.

    Without Cabaye, who is providing our creativity? Much more likely that LDJ will knock down balls for the likes of Remy and Goofy to capitalise on.

  • 41 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 10:53 AM

    TDS

    not sure on sissoko just yet for a top side but agree on the others, but i guess remy isn’t and won’t be ours.

    I too would prefer a prospect but if we don’t have the prospect would rather keep the squad player until we get a replacement or have that prospect.

  • 42 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:00 AM

    TS

    I think Sissoko is still young. Not saying he’d be a starter but I reckon a few of the top 6 teams would happily have taken him as a squad player if he was interested in that.

    We still have a lot of work to do in the summer…

    4 centre backs (one homesick and often injured, one unproven in the PL, one limited but in good form and one loyal but limited). Not one of those inspires me with confidence for kick-off 2014/15.

    Our top 2 strikers are loans and our 4th choice looks past it and will leave. So our strike force in the summer is Cisse…

    Lack of creativity in midfield with Cabaye going and Ben Arfa probably off too.

    We actually do need a serious rebuild! I hope the DoF is working hard! Ah….

  • 43 catchy in norway // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:01 AM

    tds

    the only flaw in your system is no one supports the forwards, and by the sound of it , you want long ball football

    very sad

  • 44 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:05 AM

    TDS

    I think wilo and mbiwa are ok for us, colo should be allowed to go, free up his wages as he is rarely fit now, same for saylor. So bring 2 in unless we have a kid to promote like Good.

    We need to buy 3 forwards, they don’t come cheap either.

    Like you say cabaye needs replacing too and more than likely ben arfa, so there’s 2 more.

    Basically we need 7 decent players in to just stand still.

  • 45 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:19 AM

    catchy

    Not at all! I’m just stating what I think will happen. With Cabaye, controlling midfield and Sissoko providing drive from midfield, then those 2 plus Goofy and Remy can provide movement and chances for themselves and Cisse. Without Cabaye, I think the control is lacking, so I (sadly) suspect that they will resort to hoofing the ball to LDJ a bit more and feeding off the scraps.

    Before you get too negative, please recall that this was often the tactic that we used with Shearer as he was so good at holding up the ball or drawing fouls from defenders.

    It looks like we’ve tried Ben Arfa to provide that creativity from midfield and he hasn’t exactly succeeded. There’s nobody else to provide the calmness and creativity that is required.

  • 46 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:22 AM

    TS

    I think they’re ok but I think MYM is still adapting to this league and Willo is limited. I’m ok with those two as long as at least one of similar or better level is brought in and one other who is similar or a prospect.

    Yup. 3 forwards unless Cisse finds his form, in which case 2 forwards and hopefully Armstrong/Campbell to enter the squad.

    Lots of work to be done this summer. Oh if only we could hear that Cabella and Grenier have both signed and then LDJ bangs in the goals and signs for us too. Would provide a nice boost!

  • 47 wolfshead@toon // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM

    tds@42

    i find your realism refreshing on here its also a tad depressing tho haha

  • 48 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:27 AM

    TDS

    Yeh would be nice.

    As you are probably aware (and sick of hearing) I haven’t got much faith in ashley after the last couple years of transfer windows but there is not much else to do than wait, they can’t buy now so we must wait til the summer I guess.

    I think we will bring in 3/4 but whether we do enough to replace all out goings fully and then strengthen further to push on I have my doubts.

  • 49 Mister Tuff // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:32 AM

    TDS – you’ve just mentioned we need a “serious rebuild” in the summer. I could not agree more – I agree that serious is the correct word to use -it suggests urgency which is very clear to most fans. Failure to clear out the deadwood in the summer and bring in half a team in my opinion could have disastrous consequences -certainly in terms of re-kindling ambition for the club/fans.
    Percy has talked about re-building -I only hope they assess in depth the correct pieces of the jigsaw -so we can look like a team instead of individuals.

  • 50 wolfshead@toon // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:35 AM

    tuff

    good point only its difficult to get the right players in if the net is only cast in one country and also a low ceiling pricewise?

  • 51 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:36 AM

    The summer window will be a painful one. Everyone is in the shop window and if decent money is received everyone can leave – although this has always been the case.

    With only a year left on his contract, I’d imagine a pretty paltry fee could snap up HBA, Colo has a lot longer left but has been eyeing the exit for a while. Some big clubs could come in for Debuchy, Remy will be off to pastures new, Shola’s contract is expiring and LDJ has to prove himself worthy of the supposed £8m that it will take to buy him.

    Our striker crisis makes me want to keep Cisse, regardless of how rubbish he is because if we sell him, he will be yet another player we will not replace.

    So if we’re operating under the optimistic view that we’ll only lose 4 of the above, given how we’re 4/5 players short of a properly competitive squad as it stands, that would mean that MA would need to invest to buy 7/8 players in the summer.

    Never. Going. To. Happen.

    Ergo, a painful window, even more threadbare squad than we already have all in the name of gambling with our PL status to maximise the amount of money he can make from us.

    I read a comment saying that he’ll make smart investments, hope a youngster or 2 will develop in order to help us push for the CL!

    I’ve been called delusional for wanting him gone, but some fans really are off with the fairies.

  • 52 Ancientcoptic // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:41 AM

    “We cannot imagine that Papiss Cisse would want to play in Russia, but he may not get the choice”

    Cisse does not have to sign for any club he does not want to.

  • 53 wolfshead@toon // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:42 AM

    coptic

    yep another one happy to sit on the bench collecting his wages

  • 54 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    wolfshead

    Sorry…

    Would it cheer you up if I just started posting “Pardew out!” or “Mike Ashley is a fat git?!”? :-)

  • 55 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:45 AM

    TS

    I haven’t got much faith in him to make decisions that are best for the football either. I think he’ll sign players to protect out top 8/top 10 status and that’s what he’s happy to do. A club that has finished in the top 10 for several years running provides a better prospect for sponsors and potential buyers.

  • 56 Ancientcoptic // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:45 AM

    I thought the signing of Bigi was a mistake from the start. He is too short, immobile and not comfortable enough on the ball to play Premier League level.

    I am sure some would disagree, but I believe buying short players is a mistake, unless they are exceptionally talented.

  • 57 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:47 AM

    TDS

    Not picking an argument, but you are correct in asserting that a serious rebuild is necessary, however, the reason we need a serious rebuild is because we have a poor squad to begin with. The only player who has left that squad is Cabaye.

    The reason I bring up this point is because on numerous occasions you informed the blog that we had a very competitive squad to work with and should not be critical of Ashley for failing to invest further.

    What has changed between then and now if you do not mind me asking, or do you still think we have a strong squad?

  • 58 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:48 AM

    I will retract my previous question as you’ve just stated what your view is on Ashley’s ‘plan’ for the future.

  • 59 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:48 AM

    Mister Tuff

    Basically, we should be planning now. 1/2 signings should already be lined up (although the news does not have to be made public) and we should be scoping out all the other options. The squad should still be focussed on finishing in the top 8 but our DoF (oops) should be working to the plan to sign a replacement for Cabaye and 2 strikers at a minimum, plus consider replacing Cisse, Colo and Ben Arfa. Then we could look at requiring replacements if Saylor or anyone else leaves.

    That sounds like a lot of work to me!

  • 60 wolfshead@toon // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    tds

    god no i was just thinking what a nice place this blog is without mag lumbering around making a pathetic attempt at trolling haha ;-)

  • 61 Ancientcoptic // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    wolfshead – I am sure Cisse would be happier to be playing. I would not blame him for rejecting a move to Russia.

    I have never questioned his professionalism, I would take him over Ba when it comes to his attitude.

  • 62 ROSHAN MAGPIE // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    even aguero is short Silva nasri navas all are short and they don’t have the problem its not about height its about the talent

  • 63 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:50 AM

    TDS

    I think we missed a trick even with players like shane long…he’s no world beater, doesn’t score enough but will get you 6-10 a season I think and if we had got him in january then it’s one less to get in the summer, and he’s certainly a step up on shola.

    Buying 7/8 players, which is what we need, is never really a good idea as they take a while to bed in with that many changes…could be very difficult next season I fear.

  • 64 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:53 AM

    roshan

    some positions require height, centre backs need to be tall really.

    size is an advantage, but so is pace, technique, skill, vision….size is good if it completed the all round package like it does with yaya toure, but it’s not crucial like you say.

    But I do think it’s important to have some tall players even if just to help defend or attack set pieces.

  • 65 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:54 AM

    Ciaran

    Fair enough.

    I still think that we have a squad easily good enough for the top 10, but we’re now unbalanced with Cabaye leaving. I felt we were already short on creativity and swapping Cabaye for LDJ has hardly helped that matter. At least we have the big striker we needed but we have less ability to actually find him with Cabaye leaving.

    Our players and manager need to put in some serious effort to stop this season ending like a damp squib and see us drift to finish a distant 9th or worse.

    If we finish in 8th and replace Cabaye, the 2 on-loan strikers and anyone else who leaves in the summer, then I think that’s progress. But with Ben Arfa, Colo and Cisse likely to leave this summer, that’s 6 first team players required and it would be a very impressive transfer window for us to do that.

    So…I’m not overly confident…

    From being 1 or 2 players short in the summer (big striker and possibly another creative midfielder), we’re now definitely short a playmaker and creative midfielder and it’s going to be even worse come July.

  • 66 Ancientcoptic // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:55 AM

    Roshan, the players you just mentioned come under “exceptionally talented,” so height isn’t a factor for them.

    Mourinho has always liked to pack his Chelsea side with height, to me that indicates his understanding of the Premier League.

  • 67 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:55 AM

    wolfshead

    No question Ed would ban him if someone complained. His out and out abuse is against all levels of decency and also the blog rules. I might warn him next time I see him and complain if he doesn’t listen. He’s offering exactly nothing to the blog.

  • 68 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:57 AM

    TS

    The problem with Long is that he cost about £7M right? Well, Ashley simply won’t buy players like him because he’s never going to be able to mark him down as worth more than that in the books.

    Ashley wants to buy assets which are then worth more than he paid for them after a period of time. He has done that with SD and he’s doing it with us. We can bang on about this being a frustrating policy but it is what it is. It’s similar to Arsenal’s policy except they have been doing it for 15 years, have a wonderful youth system to grow these young players and have a top manager to help them in the first team.

  • 69 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:57 AM

    Sage

    While we may need 7/8 next season, I firmly believe we will only see 3/4 come through the door with the younger players expected to cover the holes and the likes of Obertan and Marv playing more of a role next season.

    It will get worse before it gets better I fear.

  • 70 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    more and more vince mcmahon stories coming out…probably just latching onto the rumour to sell a few papers but the reasons behind it do stack up.

    would love to see him here, might be a lot worse than what we have but certainly exciting.

  • 71 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM

    TDS

    yeh the policy is flawed, i’d have even taken berbatov on loan for the season with holtby….would have done the job til the summer, scored more than shola has

    Ciaran

    Yeh, it will take a huge turn around to get the right amount and quality of player in, something i don’t see happening.

  • 72 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM

    TDS

    Personally, I was of the mindset that we needed to strengthen further than what we had done in the summer, so simply replacing outgoings and maintain the same sort of squad as we had started last season with does not really amount to progress for me, it amounts to maintaining a mid-table status quo.

    I seriously doubt our ability to finish 8th, as I think Southampton are going to nail that in pretty easily as we look devoid of any passion or desire to do more than we are doing at the moment. I don’t think we will finish lower than 9th because teams like Swansea, Villa, Stoke et al are too poor to go on a consistent enough run to overtake us – could be famous last words though.

    My problem is that every season will be like this from now on. Maintaining a standard of squad so we can aim for mid-table obscurity.

    You are right in claiming that with the likes of Cisse, Colo, HBA and Shola possibly leaving we need about 7/8 players in, and even you must admit that Ashley does not have form for that sort of investment.

  • 73 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    We need 3 for sure (Cabaye, Remy, LDJ) and we think it’s likely we’ll need 3 more (Ben Arfa, Cisse, Colo) and possibly a few more (Saylor or any of the fringe players like Gosling, Marv, Overran etc.)

    I don’t mind youth players replacing the last group in the squad but there’s nobody who has proven themselves good enough to cover the first 6 players I mentioned.

    So I think we need minimum 3 players and likely 6.

  • 74 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM

    TS

    We took LDJ instead. I don’t think that Berbatov would be any more motivated for us that he was at Fulham. Holtby maybe but I wonder whether they still expected a permanent signing to replace Cabaye?

  • 75 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM

    TDS

    Will you be satisfied if only the first three are replaced?

  • 76 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:13 PM

    Ciaran

    It’s not about the level of investment. We have kept our powder pretty dry since summer, we have money from Cabaye, we’ll have more money from outgoings in summer and will save a lot on wages, plus the extra TV money due this summer. So there will be a serious war chest to spend if Ashley authorises it. I don’t have an issue with the level of investment on the playing side, I have an issue to the speed at which they move.

    But this summer, if they spend £20 on 2/3 players, then it will simply be inadequate.

    I do think we have been strengthening over the last few seasons. We’ve bought players who are still improving and we’ve been adding to the squad from time to time.

    As I’ve said, I think we need to establish ourselves in the top 8 for a few seasons and then we’ll attract better sponsors, better players and maybe a better owner. It’s not exciting but I think it is the best decision for the long-term.

    Now…if only Ashley (or someone else senior) would come out and say “We’ve looked at the way that the likes of Spurs and Everton have grown over the last few seasons and as it’s only our 4th season back in the PL, we believe we have done well to be just behind those clubs. Our plan is to firmly establish ourselves in the top 8 of the PL, improve our squad, close the gap season on season and then be able to make a push for the European places in due course. If we are in that top 8, then we are in a great position to capitalise on the poor performance of other clubs if we can maintain good form and keep up the pressure on those clubs.”

  • 77 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:15 PM

    Ciaran

    Yes. If Colo stays and shakes off his injuries and Cisse and Ben Arfa prove their form in the rest of the season and both want to stay on.

    Bit unlikely all that will happen though…

  • 78 Graeme // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:15 PM

    Ciaren, would be far happier with a new Owner & Manager though!!

    It would be a major improvement towards the future of NUFC!!

  • 79 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:20 PM

    New manager and new owner is fantasy land though.

    Ashley will sell up when he’s good and ready. Pardew will stay if he hits the targets. I know he was set top 10, but I’d have set him top 8. So if he finishes 9th then I’d be 50/50 on him staying.

    Regardless, they did it right last year and should do the same again. Assess his performance very soon after the season ends and sack him or back him.

  • 80 mindshaft // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM

    I fully expect a disappointing summer transfer window, high profile players are unlikely to come to the toon so we’ll be stuck trying to unearth bargains – even then I don;t expect any more than 3 ‘purple players’ regardless of who goes out.

    Regarding todays ‘rumours’
    Think Cisse has already declined a move to Russia so thats a non starter

    That wrestling dude buyout rumour is bollocks, wishful thing that has desperate fans and media perpetuating it in the hope it’ll flush out some news

  • 81 Graeme // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM

    TDS – Its the latter option thats the major worry though!!!
    Will he be willing to do it??

  • 82 Charlie in the Gallowgate // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM

    ToonDarnSarf @77
    Agree with your last para. just like someone to say what the plan is from the end of the season.
    Because since we got back into the premiership we have slowly built a half decent premiership first fifteen (still short on the squad)
    This summer is the time to push on and if we have kept our powder dry and built a decent war chest and are prepared to spend it – then there could be some interesting comings and goings.

  • 83 toonarmydownsouth // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:23 PM

    Sell him!!
    Can never risk missing out on improving the books!!

  • 84 DokToon // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:25 PM

    gmorning all, from the dark side of the pond…

    my two cents, or pence, whatever you call them :)

    vince mcmahon would be very entertaing… my best friend actually works for him, as a photographer, so im gonna call him up and se if theres any truth… but vince does not like to lose, so id be inclined to say i think hed be very active in pushing us up… plus, john henry, owner of the boston red sox is near him, maybe have a bit of rivalry tween the two…

    tds, you said, “if only ashley would say…” good luck with that :) he doesnt talk to the supporters, and i firmly believe he’s one of the worst owners in ANY sport, not just the prem…..

    oh, btw, its my bday today, so its mandatory everyone goes out as has a beer in my honor lol…

  • 85 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:27 PM

    Graeme

    I believe he was close to getting rid of Pardew last summer but he convinced him to stay on. No inside information here, just reading between the lines of the communication from the club, timings etc.

    If he’s going to back him, we all know that they will have a good amount of money to spend on transfer fees and wages, so there is no excuse not to spend it!

  • 86 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:28 PM

    TDS

    When I say investment, I mean simply going out to purchase players. I don’t care if they are freebies, cheap options, or bargain players so long as they are of a decent standard.

    While you seem to believe that we’ve ‘kept our powder dry’ to afford us the ability to invest in the summer, I obviously have a much more cynical approach.

    We have been told by Llambias in the past that we were building a squad capable of competing at the highest level (in the story in which we announced the Wonga deal) and also the ridiculous ‘purple’ policy, in which Llambias said we were replicating Aston Villa’s model!

    So we have had some form of communication from the club as to where they want us to go, the problem is that Ashley’s actions do not seem to indicate that he is in any way interested in success for our club. His actions indicate that he does not want to qualify for Europe due to the added investment needed to stave off relegation. We had a real chance to finish strongly this season – at one point we were 5 points short of 4th/5th and had we signed a few players in January, we could have gave them a run for their money.

    The problem is, Ashley quantifies everything in terms of profit. If something isn’t profitable enough for him he will not do it. Which is why we do not want to play in the EL and do not compete in the domestic cups.

    We do not need to finish in the top 10 in order to attract sponsors or investors. As it stands, we are not being paid for the vast majority of our advertising hoardings, do you genuinely believe that we are unable to attract ANY sponsors who would be willing to pay the going rate? We are in the PL, companies are sure to be falling over themselves to have that level of exposure.

    We never had any problems attracting sponsors under SJH or FS. Which points to the fact that Ashley deliberately isn’t selling that space in order to have exposure for his own company.

    As for investors – the same reasons apply. Fulham were purchased for £200m – we are a much bigger club, albeit not in London, so let’s assume our market value is around that point + £127m of Ashley’s loan our purchase price is £327m – no one would pay that.

    So in order for Ashley to be able to realistically sell the club he needs to reduce the debt owed to him – which is what I think he is doing now.

    Needless to say, we probably disagree massively on this point, but I just want you to realise that this is not a conclusion that I have angrily stumbled upon. It is through observing how he has operated in the transfer windows in the past few years, it is through observing that not a single club other than us struggles to sell advertising space and it is through the mixed messages and lack of honest communication that we receive from the club.

  • 87 toonarmydownsouth // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    Dreading the summer tbh we need 4/5 players and that’s before any outgoings!

    We stand to lose HBA Cisse Remy Marv Shola Colo
    And are rumoured to lose Debuchy and Krul

    Cannot see MA bankrolling the required amount nor quality of players needed, especially seeing as we have no DOF already working on deals

    The running of this club tbh has started to go well beyond a joke

  • 88 Graeme // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    DokToon – consider it done buddy lol

  • 89 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    Charlie/DokToon

    Yup. If only he would come out and say that…

    Failing that, if only he would appoint a top DoF/Chairman/MD who would run the club and come out and say that.

    For me, that’s the single biggest mistake that Ashley has ever made and he continues to make it. DW was not that man and neither was JFK.

  • 90 toonarmydownsouth // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:30 PM

    Dok
    Happy birthday mate

  • 91 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:31 PM

    TDS

    yeh berba might not be motivated but well reported he is a newcastle fan, he is the kind of guy who would suit or slow build up play…would be worth a bid in the summer in my view as a shola replacement, a good squad player. Sure many will disagree though but be low price and realistically i can’t see us buying 3 10mil forwards.

  • 92 Mister Tuff // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:33 PM

    We are again approaching yet another window -with most fans probably assessing our future prospects – by seeing what we do during the summer as opposed to reference to an established plan. If we only get a couple of players -youngsters/el cheapo/bargain basement types my assessment will be that Mr Tubbs interests would be to trouser the additional TV dosh as opposed to great things for the team. Again not much activity in the summer -and a bad start to the season -can potentially be rectified next January -if a dogfight looms.
    The summer will answer more questions about where the club is going – it will also reveal to some that “giving them until the next window” is a never ending condition – it is just stringing the fans along.

  • 93 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:35 PM

    Ciaran

    Look at the teams we put out in the cups, they were decent.

    Look at the way other clubs treat the EL and the English cups – almost every one treats them the same way that we do unless they’re a lower league club who needs the money.

    I say established top 10 club because no sponsor wants to sign a 5 year deal with a club that gets relegated. Being in the top 10 for 3/4 years in a row would prove us to be stable and a consistent performer rather than the usual yo-yo seasons that we’ve had at this club. That is how this club is developed, from that kind of consistency.

    I think the bidding would need to be at least £250M to buy the club and I think if we’re a top 8/10 club on the verge of Europe every season then we’re worth that easily.

    As for signing a couple of players in Jan and pushing the top 4, I think that’s highly wishful thinking. For us to overtake 3/4 of Man Utd, Everton, Spurs and Liverpool to do that would require a monumental effort and is completely unrealistic unless those clubs seriously falter.

    8th should be the target for the rest of the season with minimum 8th place next season.

  • 94 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:36 PM

    TS

    Berba is now suited to a slower league in my opinion. I’d be surprised if he came back to the PL and I don’t think he would like to be on the bench on a blustery Newcastle winter day…

  • 95 DokToon // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:36 PM

    tads, graeme, tyvm,

    now if i only knew why i came to work today lol…

  • 96 ToonDarnSarf // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:36 PM

    Anyway…need to go. Good talking to you all. Plenty of time to speculate before we see the proof in the pudding this summer…

  • 97 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:43 PM

    TDS

    We’re not a yo-yo club. Never have been and there is nothing to suggest that sponsors are being stand offish because of that fact, so you are reading between the lines to an illogical degree as far as I am concerned.

    Also, if that was the case, how come Crystal Palace, Norwich, Southampton, West Brom, Sunderland, et al all have sponsorship deals.

    Also, we’ve been in the PL for 4 years, so that argument falls down on itself.

    Much like Arsenal fans are annoyed that they did not sign a striker in order to push on for the title. Much like Liverpool fans are annoyed they did not invest in order to secure 4th spot. We too have the same right to be annoyed that we did not invest in order to finish as high as possible.

    It seems like we deliberately aimed at 8th. Ashely came in and assessed the table and thought that we didn’t need any investment as we were on course. That is lacking ambition. Instead, he should have assessed the table and spotted an opportunity to kick on. Yet he didn’t.

    Your approach always seems to be with the ‘jam tomorrow’ mindset. It’s always, ‘wait and see’ which would be understandable 2 years ago, but now there is nothing to wait and see any more.

    The teams we fielded in the cups were ‘decent’ in relative terms to our squad. If your squad is poor to begin with then that negates that approach as well. We have 1 striker capable of scoring, and as has been shown, when he is out of the team, we do not look even remotely threatening, so when he didn’t play against Cardiff it was unlikely that we would threaten.

    That is all on Ashley.

  • 98 Ciaran // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:44 PM

    Dok

    Happy Birthday pal :D

  • 99 Oleg G // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:45 PM

    Before Cabaye was sold, we looked like we could challenge for the 5th-6th place. But getting only 4 points out of 24 possible in the last 8 games finished all of that. Together with losing Cabaye who was leading this team, we are useless right now.

    No leadership, no creativity, and a long way from stability, on the field and off it.

  • 100 Transfer Sage // Feb 18, 2014 at 12:47 PM

    I think with a couple players coming in and keeping cabaye til the summer we could have pushed top 4, unlikely to get it but certainly push and definitely offer a real challenge for 6th which is likely to be a europe league spot

  • 101 mag // Feb 18, 2014 at 1:07 PM

    TDS, Are we keeping you from your knitting.

  • 102 mindcompressor // Feb 18, 2014 at 4:17 PM

    i would let cisse go on load if possible. if he would unlock himself that would be great to see him in form from his beginning with us. if not – let him to find team with his current level, because i see no point to give him more chances. armstrong deserves much more.




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