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News and Commentary On Newcastle United Football Club By Ed Harrison, A Proud Exiled Geordie And Lifelong Fan

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This Lad Has Real Quality – He Scored A Fantastic Goal

10:16 am, Wednesday, July 23rd, 2014 by Dr. Ed Harrison · 236 Comments

Newcastle manager Alan Pardew seemed delighted by the overall Newcastle United display yesterday down under, and especially for the young players who got an outing against Sydney FC.

adam armstrong scores Sydney 82 mins

Adam Armstrong after scoring great goal against Sydney FC

They included 17 year-old Adam Armstrong – who looks one for the future – and he combined brilliantly with 19 year-old striker Adam Campbell, for Newcastle’s fourth goal after 82 minutes.

This is what Alan Pardew told the Shields Gazette today:

“In the last friendly at Oldham, they didn’t do so well,” “But they all showed up well. I was really pleased. Armstrong got a fantastic goal.”

“He won the European Championships with England’s U-17s, and you could see he’s got real quality.It was a good night and a great crowd.”

“We’ve really enjoyed it so far,” “We can only sum it up at the end.” “We’ve got five or six days left. We’re looking forward to going to Wellington now.”

“Dunedin have been fantastic hosts, and the stadium is terrific.” “The town can be really proud of the stadium.”The people have been so friendly.”

Armstrong has so far made 4 appearances for the first team at the end of last season,  and he starred in the England U17 European Championship triumph  in May of this year, along with our young goalkeeper Freddie Woodman.

We are hoping that Adam can make this breakthrough next season, maybe along with Adam Campbell too – and Newcastle desperately need to show that we can bring top youngsters through the ranks on Tyneside.

We haven’t been too successful in doing that over the last seven years.

Comments welcome.

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Tags: Adam Armstrong · Adam Campbell · Freddie Woodman · Newcastle Academy · Newcastle News · Newcastle U21 · Newcastle Youth



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236 responses so far ↓

  • 1 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:18 AM

    I think rodolfo aarons is closer the starting 11 than Armstrong.

    Boy he looks class. I’d take a punt at start him against city. Could have a potential 20m rated winger in our hands. He just needs to work hard.

  • 2 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM

    LR

    read the link, thats all I ask, you will see how wrong you are.

  • 3 proud2bnufc // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:22 AM

    Maybe not fantastic goal but he has some good quality and should play more and more. Campbell, Armstrong, Rivierre and one more to success.

  • 4 Edd Case // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:22 AM

    Armstrong, Campbell, Aarons – those 3 in particular are very good prospects.

  • 5 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:23 AM

    Spoof, I don’t care if Rotonda got a hammering. His views are pretty much the same as mine on things. That means others are against it. Maybe the ones who accept Pardew is here need a hammering, because he’s been allowed to be employed for far too long.

    Yes, it may get a bit annoying listening to posters like me slating the conman. However, it is nowhere near the annoyance I have of seeing that prat take charge of my club. Listening him come out game after game with the same spin and same abysmal tactics.

    So… Our comments are a reflection of that idiot in charge of us, who, let’s not forget gave us 14 losses in 20 games and equalled the worst EVER loss run in the club’s history. We only didn’t break it due to playing a relegated side in Cardiff.

    Accept the conman’s position here if you want. I am certainly not. If you accept it, it’s like a weed in the garden growing more and more. He needs weeding out and binning.

  • 6 proud2bnufc // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:25 AM

    We should play them often than last season and try to push some fresh and young power to the team spirit.

  • 7 OhSholaAmeobi // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:26 AM

    Ship out Obertan and Jonas either on loan or for a small fee, bring in Seydou Doumbia and give the young lads a chance to stake a claim on the wings.

  • 8 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:27 AM

    Wrong about what though? That I can see Marveaux has a good through ball when played centrally? No, he does.

    Wrong when Marveaux got the most assists when hardly playing and ultimately kept us in the division? They are all right.

    Yes, he can disappear. Who doesn’t in games? Especially the flair players.

    Robert Lee and Vieri both spoke about Ginola and Pires that they had to make up for their lack of work rate because they could do special things. No different to the special things Ben Arfa can do and has shown, and in a defensive team as well.

  • 9 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:28 AM

    LR

    I have no interest in what you have to say, if you are not man enough to read through them and see the reaction and views of most then I am not prepared to discuss it with you, what is the point of having a discussion with someone who is incapable of accepting that they could possibly have it wrong, so as far as I am concerned you may as well not bother responding as I will not listen too you, all I will do is treat you with the contempt that you deserve, you are very monotonous and you are boring me.

  • 10 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:29 AM

    Spoof, LR32, Jesper, Pawl – in fact everyone, I’m gonna post a link for stats from last season, please compare players as you wish…I personally agree with LR32

  • 11 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:29 AM

    http://www.squawka.com/players/hatem-ben-arfa/stats

  • 12 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:31 AM

    Slow down Ed !!!

    Spoof,

    I see you’re giving LR a hard time just as you tried to do to me. It’s opinions pal. Who’s to say you’re right and the likes of LR, BPC, Graeme, Check Tiote, Our toon and me etc are all wrong and vice verca.

    I realised from a personal perspective that it was unhealthy for me to fixate so much on my dislike of Pardew. However, the points these guys make are valid and just because you don’t necessarily agree, I refer you to my previous.

  • 13 Slank // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM

    Ed, I disagree about ‘who looks one for the future ‘.

    Armstrong is good enough to play now. He reminds me of a young Michael Owen. Armstrong is a natural goal scorer and has demonstrated this quite a few times for England.

    His problem could be the formation we may play in the future if it is 4-5-1. He isn’t a lone centre forward. He is probably better behind the lone striker.

  • 14 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:35 AM

    ED MAN!! Stop posting new articles.

    Jesper

    Sissoko was had the highest assists in our team last season.

    Marveaux is not even worth mentioning, him leaving would have no effect on our team, even last season it would have made no effect. It was like he was not even here, when he was.

    Ben Arfa is different, in that he can contribute more at times. Most times though he will lose the ball. He will 1 out of 10-20 times do abit of magic.

    You can tell his quality though when he does make a pass etc. but he just does not do it enough and his attitude stinks.

    He has the quality, he limits himself with his attitude.

  • 15 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:38 AM

    LRobert

    Marveaux has been shocking most games he has played.

    Now Pardew is limited as a manager but I do agree with him leaving that donkey out. I think I have seen him make 1 decent pass, he misplaces passes alot more than anything else. He is simply not good enough.

    Ben Arfa is good enough. He just limits his ability with a shocking attitude. Same reason he is sitting in the reserves and not one club other than someone in Ukraine as asked about him.

    Even Barton had interest, it speaks volumes about Ben Arfa when he is a much better technical player but no one wants the hassle.

  • 16 Slank // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:38 AM

    Why are people going on about Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Jonas and Obertan ?

    These players are from yesterday.

    They have no future at the club. There is absolutely no point in discussing the pros and cons as it will make no difference to the team.

  • 17 Scottiedog // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:38 AM

    @ LR32

    Times have moved on mate and we cannot afford to carry anyone who does pull there weight!! Marvaeux is a good played, but just maybe not Premier League quality though……

  • 18 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    OurToon

    Ben Arfa score 600
    Jonas score 612

    LOL I stopped looking at that point.

  • 19 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    pawl…if anything the stats you showed me and the point you are making shows that Pardew made alot of bad decisions last season when it came to putting a team together.

    …we were poor all over the field. Marv might not have changed much as you say, but look at the stats from the season before and look at the players had on paper.

    Not only did we underperform massively, but we created absolutely nothing. The players you could count on adding to assists and goals did hardly play.

    That is actually a fact.

  • 20 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    Our Toon

    stats are meaningless, look at Tuedays game, Aarons put in a load of really good high quality crosses but they weren’t converted so statistically he got no goals and no assists, but that doesn’t mean he played badly, yet Campbell came on and only made 1 decent pass, which lead to a goal so he got an assist, now I am not having a go at Campbell here as he has done nothing wrong but based on what we saw on Tuesday who would you rather have in the side, the one with the better stats or the one with the less impressive stats, the chances are almost 95% would rather have Aarons but the stats say that Campbell had the bigger impact, as I say stats can lie and mislead, we can hardly blame Aarons for the strikers poor finishing, and is it fair to praise Campbell for Armstrongs good finishing.

  • 21 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:41 AM

    I would just like to add something about the “majority” disposition on here which is so evident at times.

    It might be a bit philosophical for some, but “The Tyranny of the Majority Disturbs Me”!

  • 22 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:43 AM

    Pawl

    I’ve just posted a link which states that HBA created 55 chances last season and created 43, both players had the same passing average and both players made a total of 2 defensive errors, however Gouffran was better at shot accuracy, goals scored!! Let’s not potray this picture of HBA doesn’t pass!! 55 chances last season in a team that struggled as an attacking entity plus add to that games off the bench…does someone who doesn’t pass create 55 chances for others?

  • 23 T.T.V.V.T. // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:43 AM

    Sorry to steal Armstrong’s thunder on this thread…

    Just something i was reading there…

    This Isla we’ve been linked with. Last season at Juve he played the vast majority of his games as a defensive midfielder right sided.

    I know a lot of us are rubbishing the link with him considering we’ve just signed the talented Daryl Janmaat but Isla is not necessarly a right back, although he was used there by Chile.

    For me, he could be a Gutierez replacement. Granted he’s not left sided but hes a crazy, versatile South American haha.

    It would also be of note to point out that Monaco are still heavily linked with Sissokko and Isla could be a player we bring in before letting one go, much as with the Debuchy scenario.

    In not saying this is happening, im just chewing the fat here.

  • 24 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:43 AM

    T.T.V.V.T…if it’s not nativity as you say then to me it does sounds though you don’t understand the cause and effect?

    …of course what we spend have an impact on us fans.

  • 25 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:44 AM

    …everything here is about cause and effect.

  • 26 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:44 AM

    OurToon

    http://www.squawka.com/players/vurnon-anita/stats

    Anita shows Benny up apart from goals. But being a DM may actually make a case for that!

    You do not see Gerrard scoring as many goals as he did comapred to when was further up the pitch.

    Why are people trying to defend Ben Arfa? He is a quality player that limits himself by his own attitude. He lacks any sort of determination to better himself as a player because he already thinks he is it.

    He even compares himself to likes of Messi and Ronaldo. Hilarious.

  • 27 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:45 AM

    Pawl

    Click on Jonas, you’ll see he got 45 from a total of 4 appearances

  • 28 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 AM

    Spoof

    I didn’t give you facts based on goals and assists but also facts on pass completion percentage and chances created (like Aarons yesterday)

  • 29 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 AM

    Spoof, I read all that thread as it was going on the other day and I’ve read it again now. Naturally, through the own player’s ability you will get some players who perform, regardless of manager’s input. But as it’s a team game, it’s how the manager can integrate those players to make the team perform well.

    I thought Guthrie was pretty average. Sprays the ball out left and right when he has time. His movement wasn’t anything of note neither was his final pass. He was decent at best. Nothing out of the ordinary skill wise.

    Reading from post 33 isn’t the answer to all things right. It is an opinion which I don’t share.

    As I said, Marveaux is not a world beater, but I believe he has more to offer in a team which is based around passing and moving. A foreign concept to Pardull.

  • 30 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:51 AM

    RH

    in fairness m8 you hid and when you came back you came back with a different view, you know that.

    What really annoys me though is that even when you or LR are totally wrong you will never accept it and admit to it, and that is why I am now as impatient as I am, I can’t see the point of debating with you’s, an example is Jonas, you claimed he has been Pardewed, yet I stipulated that due his game being about running up and down that flank supporting the fullback that he can no longer do it due his legs not allowing him to do so, now I find it incredible that you cannot admit to being wrong on this, yet you dig your heels in, like I say, what is the point.

    I said a while ago that I do not expect SDJ to succeed, based on how he has slotted into the side so far, it now seems certain that I will be wrong, but heyho, no one is perfect we all get things wrong, sadly some cannot admit to that !

  • 31 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    Ok. Before i say this, i will point out i am NOTtalking about skill levels….

    Right. Fact alert. People on here are willing to let HBA off with the SAME things that Shola Ameobi has been slated for his whole career (laziness mainly). I would also go so far as to say that he actually tries harder than HBA. I am clearly not saying he is a better player, but i would say he was more reliable in doing the partucular job he was asked to do.

  • 32 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    Pawl

    You tried to base your case against a player from what you’ve heard from this regime or dare I say others or you try to distort facts by claiming he doesn’t pass the ball etc. Yet you think Gouffran like I’d say most of us would think had a quality season, for some reason Williamson was voted on this site as the best player in a defence that conceded almost 2 goals a game. Football is about opinions, you claim someone’s attitude isn’t right but I ask you how you can judge that?

  • 33 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:54 AM

    OurToon

    So you are saying the source you provided is inaccurate now?

    Sorry but I am using your source to compare your argument. I cannot be held accountable for errors on a site that you provided.

  • 34 Mister Tuff // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:55 AM

    Mad Greengrocer from the Heed – you previously asked “who are the plebs”. Well to answer your question it is people like you -for pleb also we can also substitute it with -tosser/plonker/knobber/thicko/divvy/arse.
    What’s with your latest non footballing post about getting a fellow blogger to wash his mouth out with sulphuric acid?????
    Do you contribute anything at all to the debate on the blog?

  • 35 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:55 AM

    Pawl, a lot of those shocking games you speak of are part of his deterioration and forced to play a defensive containing game which he isn’t his strengths.

    If I recall against Reading he was probably the best player on the pitch yet Pardew takes him off to a chorus of boos and derision. That was when he took Cabaye off as well when he possibly had a knock. Sure enough we lose the game. From that game on I’d had enough of him. Pardew out.

    Confidence players need to be loved and shown extra attention to get the best out of them. Man-management skills which Pinocchio lacks.

    Mascherano would still be benched and unused if they were both still at West ‘aaam.

  • 36 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:57 AM

    Markaccus

    I get what your saying mate but look at the end product of the majority of the squad compared to the “laziest one”….think I might keep referring to him as that!!

    Was the friendly played against qos behind closed doors?

    On topic I think Armstrong and some of the other younger lads need loan moves to progress

  • 37 martoon // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:59 AM

    LR32 – If I can join the HBR debate without getting a hammering. There are not many on here who doubt his ability the problem is his attitude. It is very easy to blame Pardew but I suspect that something has happened behind the scenes. There are rumours HBA has lamped Pardew and you can also see that the rest of the team have no time for him either. In any job if you thump the boss and lose the respect of your colleagues then it is time to leave!

  • 38 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:59 AM

    LR

    have you checked Marveaux’s record before he came here, he had one good season but generally he has flattered to deceive, the only reason you mention Marveaux is due to your hatred of Pardew, if you used Ben Arfa, Cisse or MYM as your examples then there would be a case to discuss, but what you constantly fail to do is accept that some of the players just aren’t good enough, and the only reason you do that is to convince yourself that its Pardews fault for every player who does not succeed, that is unhealthy and it is impossible to debate with a view like that, however I do apologise for being way too sharpe earlier on, that was wrong and out of order, but I still have the same view that debating with you is not really an option for the reasons which I have already given.

  • 39 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 10:59 AM

    Spoof

    Jonas has been Pardewed. Yeh, that’s absolutely mental isn’t it? Nobody can truly believe that.

  • 40 Wandering Geordie // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM

    @Slank

    I toatally agree about Armstrong.I mentioned the fact in yesterdays blog that he reminds me of a young Owen the way he took his goal.He has a low centre of gravity and very quick feet and brain.He also reminds me of a young Gert Muller……Armstrong’s gonna be a good un

  • 41 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM

    Pawl

    Haha ok let me put this in laymens terms for you, below Jonas has been given a rating based on his career with the club. Click on Jonas to get a rating for last season!!

    It’s not rocket science mate, just use your mouse and start clicking..
    Once you get relevant info please comment otherwise you just look daft by spouting off without doing due diligence (much like our esteemed owner when he bought the club)

    If you are still struggling let me know and I can give you instuctions

  • 42 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM

    OurToon

    Ben Arfa is a liability and me personally, I would be clapping the day he leaves the club.

    Marveaux, Obertan, RTaylor, same boat mate.

    No one will convince me Ben Arfa is a great player, if he was he would not be at Newcastle.

    That statement is a sad one, but a true one.

    Cabaye, Debuchy, Ba, Remy, all arguably are star players have gone to other clubs.

    I am under no illusion we sell our better players for big money (Ba being the exception with his clause) and replace them will potentially equal talent for half the cost.

    Eventually you have 1 of two things. A well run profitable club or if you do a Spurs/Liverpool and reinvest all monies you receive from players sold you get 2-3 players.

    I mean we laugh at Carroll but they paid nothing for him. They sold Torres 50m, bought Carroll 35m and Suarez 26m then sold Carroll 16m and solid Suarez for 85m.

  • 43 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM

    Instructions

  • 44 jimmysmith // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM

    “Adam Armstrong– who looks one for the future – and he combined brilliantly with 19 year-old striker Adam Campbell, for Newcastle’s fourth goal after 82 minutes.”

    Outlandish license Ed. It was a well taken goal against pedestrian opposition, nothing more. Neither will threaten the first team if we are all Pardew claims we are or even close. Maybe Armstrong in a year or two, and Aaron’s, Campbell at 19 and so wee is even now a long shot.

  • 45 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:04 AM

    Sliema

    that is what I come up against, and yet I have never had an admittance that they are wrong, and then they wonder why I treat them with contempt ?

  • 46 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:05 AM

    That’s it though Spoof… Some of the players may not be good enough. But we can’t tell under this proven inept manager. So I will give the player the benefit of the doubt after seeing what attributes he can and can’t do at the games in person.

    If I can see things which can be utilised more I will say. In both players, I believe their is. Especially in Hatem’s case.

    You forget that Marveaux did something enough for both us and Liverpool to take a significant interest him. Two Premier League clubs took notice of the skills he showed. They are just the ones we knew of.

    Again, his assists kept us in the Premier League, and that was playing bit part and losing his place even if he did well.

  • 47 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:06 AM

    Our Toon

    ANITA CREATED MORE CHANCES THAN BEN ARFA

    BASED ON THE SAME SITE. ITS NOT HARD MATE SIMPLY CLICK ON ANITA AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

    I mean are you simple minded or something. You argument is Ben Arfa created 55 chances, Anita created 72 chances from defensive midfield and the bench.

    Is Ben Arfa suppose to be amazing? Is he suppose to create ALL our chances (sarcasm)….

    He is an average player. Anita is an average player and from defensive midfield totals much better stats. Anita had a poor season last season aswell as he was supposed to be this god among men when he first came.

  • 48 Rake // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:07 AM

    Are we discussing the Marveuax that would lose the ball and stroll around the pitch afterwards?. Happy too see the back of him. Technically a good player with an eye for a pass but for what ever reason he stopped caring.

  • 49 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:09 AM

    Our toon

    I agree when HBA feels up to it he can deliver killer passes and goals from the top drawer. However, with HBA and Marv (marv probably more) the lost posession and bad passes cost us as much as the players gave us. (Again, with marv probably more so). I think Martoon is right in saying that once you (allegedly) belt your boss and fall out with your work mates, its time to go.

    HBA….its a shame, and the blame for me is shared.

    MARV…. imho not good enough and more of a liability than HBA.

  • 50 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:09 AM

    Our Toon

    I also never mentioned Gouffran who to me had a fantastic start to the season and faded to the point he looked half the player.

    I would not compare Ben Arfa. Although if you base Gouffrans start to the season I would pick him over Benny ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

  • 51 jimmysmith // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:10 AM

    C’mon, get a grip. Pardew may be limited at the highest level, and even that us debatable. But inept, that’s a hopeless suggestion, he’s still there, in one of the hardest jobs in football and in the process of putting together his fourth and potentially best Newcastle side. He is not inept.

  • 52 outsidethebox // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:10 AM

    mister tuff at 34 …thanks for that…i was meaning the common herd the people with no say…like the nufc publicity department…(unless the are on this site in disguise)
    all it would tke is a statement from the club to the masses..
    we are getting the club on a sound financial footing ..we will be investing all transfer outgoings plus a sensible amount of tv money into incoming transfers….sorry for any offence none intended

  • 53 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:12 AM

    Spoof, have you checked Pardew’s record? Poor and filled with sackings and demonstrations.

    Tevez went 13 games without a goal at West Ham. Mascherano couldn’t even get a game. Shunned like more foreigners for the might of Hayden Mullins.

    Even Remy had his longest goal scoring drought of his career which was 9 or 10 games in a row I think the commentator said before.

    Pardew is not a benchmark of how a player performs. Until he goes and a capable manager comes in, we won’t know for sure.

    Yes, I hate Pardew, because I love the club and hate to see it treated with appalling mismanagement and lies.

    Plus I know someone who has worked with him at the club and I know exactly the type of guy he is when off the camera.

    His personality leaks out with the head butt, linesman push, foul mouthed conversing with MP and regular touchline squabbles. That’s just the stuff that can’t help but leak out.

  • 54 Rake // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:12 AM

    @47

    I think people expect too much from Anita. His at Ajax was to pick the ball up of the defense and get always be available for a pass infront of them. In the Dutch league he had more time on the ball when doing this. The problem is people would like him to offer more than this which is fair enough but that’s just not his game.

    I personally believe the love some people have for Ben Arfa and Marv stems from a huge lack of creative players in our squad. They cry out for a creative player to excite them so they are more willing to turn a blind eye to their flaws.

    Anyway I’ll let you guys get back to arguing over statistics :P

  • 55 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:14 AM

    Pawl

    How many games did Anita start? I actually like Anita for what he brings to the team ethos!! Btw I liked the capital letters not to sure what you thought you’d achieve by it though!! My point isn’t just about 1 player because that’s all that he is 1 player…my point is about other creative flair players that will never flourish in this side because of the head honcho!!

    Would you want to see 10 grafters or would you want to see 8 or 9 grafters and bit of genius from time to time? Today it’s HBA tomorrow it’ll be Cabella

  • 56 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:17 AM

    Goofy for me = Sibierski.
    A utility forward who, while he wont always produce, will produce something when it matters, and will add a different dimension coming from the bench. He had a great first half season and dropped off in the second….but didnt that happen to just about all of our players. This season will be the season that Goofy proves himself invaluable. Thats my oppinion anyway :D

  • 57 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:19 AM

    Pardew is limited.

    He is.

    But Ben Arfa is not his fault. He was a problem before he even came to the club. He was banned in Europe. He is basically Frances Joey Barton with no determination, yet with more exciting talent. Atleast Joey didnt eat all the pies, even when he was in prison he kept himself in better shape than Ben Arfa.

    Pardew is not to blame for Ben Arfa. Ben Arfa is to blame for Ben Arfa.

  • 58 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:19 AM

    To follow up on my food for thought comment about “The Tyranny of the Majority Disturbs Me”.

    Our aggregation into groups of the like-minded confers legitimacy through the mass of numbers, rather than by engagement with rival opinions that might enrich us. It says, “Look how many think just like me! I must be right and you must be wrong!” and allows us to disregard our fellow bloggers and the worth of their opinions and grievances.

  • 59 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:20 AM

    Markaccus

    I never bought Marveaux into the debate and believe we should cut our losses with him because I’d rather give Sammy (who mainly gets stick for being Shola brother) and Aarons etc a go instead

    Pawl

    I would have picked Gouffran over HBA earlier in the season but why did Gouffran run out of steam in the 2nd half of the season? Was it from all the babysitting he did in the first half of the season? With the workload our lads have to do we are always going to have a bad 2nd half of a season because we rarely keep possession or out pass opposing teams

  • 60 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:21 AM

    Being part of the majority does not mean you are right by any degree!

  • 61 expatmag // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:22 AM

    On the HBA debate, countless times last season, he got the ball on the right and was immediately closed down by 2 and more often than not, 3 defenders.

    Having drawn so many of the opposition to him, what does he do? He tries to take them on and 90% of the time, he was forced into a cornet or dispossessed.

    Now, having drawn so many of the opposition to him, an intelligent player would try to find a team mate and open up the space available. Not HBA. He wants to dribble everyone and be the glory boy.

    Admittedly, on occasions, he did create/score but nowhere near often enough and subsequently on several occasions, losing possession cost us dearly.

    We are not Barca or Bayern and therefore cannot afford his luxury

  • 62 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:25 AM

    Our toon

    aye, i know you didnt bring marv in. But inevitably he was in there anyway lol! I was mainly using him as a reference point for reliability, since i used shola as a “more reliable” i thought i should balance it with a “less reliable”

    I will concede, however, that SOME of hbas lack of reliability was down to over cautious tactics, which is my well documented issue with “El Zorro plata”

  • 63 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    Difference between them both is that Barton never thinks he’s wrong and HBA has openly come out and said he was childish when he was younger and that he regrets a lot of what he did earlier in his career!!

    Jesper I don’t think it’s about right or wrong as I don’t think any football fan will ever agree on everything, for me the biggest issue here is the scapegoating which was instigated by the manager as he doesn’t know how to utilise certain type of players…..certain fans have jumped on this though. As I say it’s not about 1 player it’s more about the type of player which will never prosper with pards in charge

  • 64 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    expatmag…it is true Benny is a magnet for players and he does make bad decisions sometimes – who doesn’t especially when you are out of form and confidence is low.

    …bur doesn’t it strike you as odd when we is pulling 2-3 players towards him and there is absolutely no movement from fellow players what so ever.

    Player the ball back all the time is just counter productive. I always found that odd didn’t you?

  • 65 Slank // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    Wandering Geordie @ 40

    To be compared to the great Gerd Muller is a fantastic honour. Although he was German and a terror of the English defence he was my hero.

    I hated running around. Thought it was a pointless activity. Much preferred to mooch around the goal and so Gerd Muller was the player I copied. He was deadly in front of goal. Yes, I can see the similarity with Armstrong.

  • 66 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:29 AM

    *…but doesn’t it strike you as odd when he is pulling 2-3 players towards him and there is absolutely no movement from fellow players what so ever.

  • 67 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:30 AM

    Our Toon…I cannot even count the number of times on hear I have been told indirectly I am wrong because the majority on here think differently…

    Someone have even been told that as early as today.

  • 68 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM

    *on here

  • 69 Slank // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM

    Jesper

    You promised not to mention ‘you know who’ !

  • 70 G // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:33 AM

    Expat at 61, absolutely spot on description about HBA, all the talent, but without the team mentality. He is an exciting, and infuriating player, and skill wise he is light years ahead of anything else we had last season, however, for all he brings to the game in general you might as well leave him out and play an Anita, who at least does work for the team, and not the individual glory.

  • 71 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:34 AM

    Slank…I know, but the circumstance dictates otherwise I am afraid.

  • 72 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:34 AM

    HBA is another entry into my NUFC missfits/cult figure team. Shola is in there now too, since he has left. These are players who either we a surprise package (sibierski) a missfit (HBA) or someone who, goid or bad, produced lengthy debate. (Shola)

  • 73 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:36 AM

    Jesper

    Do you not think its odd that the opposition feel the need to put 2 or 3 players on him, I mean he’s lazy, doesn’t offer much, loses the ball all the time, doesn’t work hard and doesnt pass the ball….the list is endless I could go on yet the opposition put 2 or 3 players on him!! Strange concept so what do they do to the players that tick all the boxes?

  • 74 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:39 AM

    OurToon

    When Barcelona lost the ball who wins it back for them?

    Would you say Iniesta, Xavi, Pedro, Neymar, Messi, Villa, Fabregas and the many other countless class players stand idle while their very notable average defense wins it back?

    Just because a player has creative flair does not mean he cannot do he defensive duties. If you watch Liverpool (arguably the best to watch side last year) the likes of Sterling, Suarez, Henderson, Coutinho didnt lose the ball then walk back and wait for the attack to start again.

    They chased the ball down, its the modern game.

    You may have Messi who at times looks lazy but in reality he can be lazy because he is Messi, and he has a better level of defenders (despite them being Barcelonas weakest area) defending their goal.

    When Ben Arfa loses the ball you have Williamson defending our goal. Not Pique or Mascherano.

    Its a big dip in quality, yet even then Iniesta doesnt exactly stand around waiting. He gets it back before his defense is even tested.

    Is that defensive minded?

    Ben Arfa is not even a great player.

  • 75 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    OurToon

    He draws 2-3 players but lack the ability to think about that and then walks into them and loses the ball.

    A great player would go here you go lads you have space and whilst they keep doing this too me I will give you the ball. No opposition team could afford to allow that to happen, and by doing that would give him more space later in the match as they could not leave 3 players on him and leave other players in any PL team unmarked.

    Great player. like I said. Needs an attitude adjustment and clearly lacks intelligence, or we assume so. Most likely he just wants to attempt to showcase he talent.

    Which makes him an even bigger liability.

  • 76 T.T.V.V.T. // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:46 AM

    @jesperfuglsang – captain of the lemon crew

    Cause – Posting innane drivel under the title “The Tyranny of the Majority Disturbs Me”.

    Effect – Whoever has the misfortune of reading it instantly forms the opinion that you’re a pretentious bell-end.

  • 77 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:49 AM

    It makes a POTENTIALLY excellent attacking side…..the down side is the keeper choices are horrific, unless someone can suggest a good one who either didnt fit or was an injury crisis

    Gk open to debate Mike hooper (utterly aweful keeper)

    Rcb marcelino (misfit)
    Cb Goma (wtf?)
    Lcb Bramble (argh)

    Rw Dyer (legs kept falling off)
    Amf Sibierski (surprised everyone)
    Dmf Barnes (zimmer crew)
    Amf Ketsbaia (no explanation needed)
    Lw Luque (unexplained lack of success)

    Ss HBA (as discussed)
    Cf Shola (massive debate every season, never missed a pen, and was the Makem slayer).

    There are others who are around the team, but this is just 11 of the ones i can imediately think of. Kluivert would be around. Lua Lua. et.c

  • 78 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:50 AM

    Pawl

    Again I have no idea why you are trying to misconstrue what I’m saying, at no point did I say hba was world class or even within that bracket!! I’m glad you have mentioned the players in that barca team, they are all products of a system which was all about winning the ball high up the pitch, pressing game except for neymar who btw doesn’t work hard….We play deep and only press when the opposition come into our half

    Here’s my list of lazy sods I recently saw at the world cup who very rarely tracked back and walked a lot during games when not in possession

    Messi
    Ronaldo
    Hulk
    Di Maria
    Robben
    Atsu
    Ozil
    Muller
    Hazard

    I can go on if you want, so by your logic in a hypothetical world if any of these signed for us they shouldn’t play because they don’t track back and they don’t work hard for the team?

  • 79 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:52 AM

    Ben Arfa would do well in a bigger, better team.

    A team that say has better players defending on his behalf.

    Adam Johnson is a good player, but his reputation from Man City does not carry weight in Sunderland.

    He is lazy, and most Sunderland fans note it. They are aware he does not track back and therefore leaves them vulnerable in return.

    At Man City they have the likes of Kompany, Zabaleta tracking this weakness, compared to Cattermole and O’Shea.

    Hell Man City would have Silva and Toure tracking back. I have seen Silva run the length of the pitch to do his defensive duties, yet I also recall a lazy Silva last season being notably the reason City conceded a goal.

    Silva is 5x the player Ben Arfa is and is expected to defend. Why should Ben Arfa not defend?

  • 80 nut meg // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:53 AM

    I don’t want to get involved in never ending saga on HBA but I really think that some people should understand that a exciting player is NOT always a great player.HBA is sometimes an exciting player only.The End.

  • 81 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    Pawl

    I put up a stat during the Argentina Swiss game and it was about Di Maria, from what I can remember he had 11 shots, pass completion of 61 percent, lost the ball a staggering 55 times, didn’t track back yet the manager kept him on and on the 128th minute he scored the winner, when Sabella was asked about why he kept him on especially when he was having a shocker the manager said he knows players like that are game changers and match winners, it only takes a minute for them to turn the game

  • 82 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    Our Toon…there are alot of things I find strange in this particular argument as I have stated on numerous occasions.

    …and still this discussion is not really about Benny, but really about flair players and how we play football. We are going to witness the same thing with or with out Benny and Pardew is going to rely on “hardworkers” until they run out of steam and he will start to turn on the flair players.

  • 83 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    Our toon

    To be fair, i would say all of those players had poor world cups by their own standards (except robben i suppose) so it shows that it may not be the best attitude for them to have, especially at international level.

  • 84 expatmag // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:57 AM

    Jesper

    Agreed regarding the lack of movement. It was one of my major beefs last season, the other one being we never seem to close down the opposition en massse (hunting in packs). To me as a coach, these are the basics of the game and shoukd be coached daily.

    However, because HBA invariably hugged the touchline or headed for the corners, there probably wasnt a whole lot of room to open up.

  • 85 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    OurToon

    Funny I watched the same World Cup and yes you have Ronaldo, Messi standing around but they can, plus I really do not think either were fully fit yet… likes of

    Hazard I seen run a full pitch to defend and then complimented on doing so by the commentator. Hes better than Ben Arfa in every department yet defends.

    Robben played a fanatstic defensive role in one of the final knock out games for Holland.

    Muller when on wing defended, he simply walked about when playing as a striker. A position I would say grants him no defensive responsibility. He did defend on the wing, as did Ozil. Especially against Argentina.

    Its one of the reason where such a force defending as a unit.

    I think you maybe seen them once or twice crawl back, but not every time like Ben Arfa would.

    And again, all these players have quality behind them. Not Dummett and Williamson!

  • 86 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM

    Jesper

    It amazes me how we seem to go round the houses about 1 player, as you say and as I’ve said it’s about more than HBA, my debate is about the calibre of player…flair players will never prosper under this inept manager, for some reason they just keep beating the HBA drum!! I’d be happy if he left, wonder who the new target would be!!

    Our creative players weren’t in the starting 11 during the 2nd half of the season yet they still get blamed!!

  • 87 Laurent Robert 32 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM

    Our Toon, good posts.

  • 88 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM

    Our Toon

    I would love Pardew to play the way you wish with Ben Arf walking around, playing high lines and trying to attack.

    And when we lose the ball the opposition will walk around us.

    Only then you will blame Pardew for his clueless tactics. Its hilarious really.

    The modern game requires players to defend. On occasion Hazard, Robben, Ronaldo all are capable of being lazy but they are 10x the player Ben Arfa is and surrounded by better defensive players in general.

    When Ben Arfa gets the ball I would argue he loses it half the time, if not more.

    Can you afford that in comparison to Robben who will probably damage the opposition over half the time.

  • 89 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    Pawl

    I talked about the games not 1 or 2 incidents in a game, but if you want to talk about particular events Hazard got switched with De Bruyne because Yedlin the young USA full back was destroying him and Vertonghen on his own. Robben was playing up top with RVP in most games as the manager played with wingback and 3 centre halves, Robben doesn’t track back which is why van Gaal was hesitant to put him our there

  • 90 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    I agree with Pawl. you need to understand your team before playing for personal glory. Those players you mentioned lazy has a world class team around them and they know they can afford to conserve their energy abit.

    Arfa laziness has likes of williamson behind him. if he doesn’t want to work hard for the team and thinks his attacking is brilliance and worthy, then go join Chelsea. oops they do not want him.

  • 91 Mister Tuff // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    I was just about to respond to expats pen picture of Bennys’ play -i would agree but was going to add the lack of runners when he draws in the opposition was also a factor. not all the time mind -but a healthy proportion of the time.
    However I see that Jesper beat me to it. I would add that if he does get crowded out -the impotus of going forward is lost and the opposition are able to re group.
    With our latest signings -where there is supposed to be a bit of speed -it might be that Benny could get a last chance to see if he can gel with any of them. Probably looks however he’ll not get the chance.

  • 92 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:06 PM

    Our Toon…the thing is Benny is just an easy target because he sometimes can be his own worse enemy! They know that, which just makes time tiresome.

    …it will be interesting as you say to see who the next victim will be. Flair players will never prosper under Pardew.

  • 93 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:07 PM

    Pawl

    My question to you was put then in the newcastle team now and the way we play, would you play either or any of them? Because they would still have dummett and Williamson behind em

  • 94 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:09 PM

    @our toon

    you cannot compare players like robben with arfa. please. its insulting to robben. Arfa’s decision making is RUBBISH. he loses the freaking ball half the time he has them.

    Those players like robben di maria, doesn’t matter if they are lazy actually. they make it count when they have the ball.

    while arfa blasts it when its better to pass. and passes it when its better to go for goal. he himself doesn’t know what’s he doing. so stop with this comparison with the likes of the great Robert or Ginola or modern day Robben Di Maria etc.

  • 95 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:09 PM

    Ilovetoon

    So you wouldn’t have any of those players at Newcastle under the current set up?

  • 96 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:10 PM

    Ilovetoon

    The debate wasn’t about ability but about flair players, it’s not about hba and the others but about flair players thay don’t work hard enough for the team

  • 97 expatmag // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:12 PM

    Our Toon

    It is very easy to blame the manager in such cases as HBA but the crux of the matter is that the system the manager put in place required the player to do his share of defending, rightly or wrongly.

    HBA is getting paid a hell of a lot of money each week to perform to the managers tactics and has failed. In essence, the manager has sacked him and this situation is not a million miles away from a team environment in an office. One person in the team doesnt do their job, they are sacked.

    Persoanally, i felt HBA was wasted out wide and should have been playing the current De Jong role all along. That part is undoubtedly Pardews fault

  • 98 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:12 PM

    Ilovetoon

    I put up a stat during the Argentina Swiss game and it was about Di Maria, from what I can remember he had 11 shots, pass completion of 61 percent, lost the ball a staggering 55 times, didn’t track back yet the manager kept him on and on the 128th minute he scored the winner, when Sabella was asked about why he kept him on especially when he was having a shocker the manager said he knows players like that are game changers and match winners, it only takes a minute for them to turn the game

    lost the ball 55 times, 61 percent pass completion

  • 99 JamesToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:12 PM

    Right, i’m gonna try and clear this up about HBA, and tracking back etc.

    lets take man city for example, last year under pellegrini they were one of the most attacking sides in the league, often lining up in a 4-2-2-2, 4-4-2 or 4-2-4.

    Hart
    Zabaleta Kompany Demichelis Clichy
    Toure Fernandinho
    Navas Silva
    Negredo Aguero

    Why is it that man city had 4 players in Navas, Silva, Negredo and Aguero who never really tracked back, only closed the ball down in the oppositions half, but the team still managed to defend well and not concede many?

    I’ll tell you why, its down to ORGANISATION, and TACTICS.

    Pellegrini had a style where the defence and central midfielders would drop deep when defending, and would win the ball back at the right time. they never pressed the opposition high, they never had great possession, but what they did was have Kompany, Demichelis, Fernandinho drop deep and always be 1 step ahead of the game. Toure was a box to box midfielder, who supplied balls out to the wings, where Navas and Silva would roam about and Clichy and Zabaleta would provide width. Whenever they lost the ball, Fernandinho would quickly try and win it back, and Toure would provide cover, and the team would drop back, but it wasn’t necessary for silva or navas to help defend as well, as Toure and Fernandinho had the QUALITY to read the game and protect the back 4, and City would always be dangerous on the counter as they’d have about 4 sitting on the half way line.

    All i’m saying is that Ben Arfa would thrive in a City team as they had the quality and cover to help defend when they lost possession, so there is no need for flair players to help defend, the only real “defensive” duty they had was pin the full backs back. If Pardew played in a Man City style and organisation, players like Benny would be a lot better, but then again we don’t possess the quality like Man City.

  • 100 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM

    I do apologies but I seem to have some internet problems!

  • 101 Mister Tuff // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM

    jesper – your comment about the Tyranny of the Masses is very interesting and probably relevant in this day and age of modern fotball, football blogs and the like – probably as relevant as it was in the days of Plato and Aristotle.
    However it seems it was too much for an unbridled thicko/ dope on here to grasp the point – as he responds with an insult.

  • 102 JamesToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM

    And also i’d like to point out how City’s defence isn’t over worked, as they spend more time in the oppositions half, attacking.

  • 103 Mr Magpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM

    In relation to the ongoing debate ragarding Ben Arfa & Pardew then i believe that both are to blame & with what appears to be various attitude & arrogance issues they just clash. However just think if Ben Arfa showed the same hunger, desire, commitment & work rate as Gouffran combined with his undoubted talent he would be the first name on the teamsheet & Pardew would find it almost impossible to leave him out.

    On a different matter……
    Pardew sets his teams up not to lose, with cautionary negative tactics. Instead of keeping possesion, linking play to generate attacks he reverts to long balls forward in the vain hope we will get a break, rebound or opportunity from this.

    In order to capitalise on the addittion of the attacking, creative players the club has purchased he needs to play a more attacking formation suited to using the skills they posess.

    Playing possesion football & allowing the more creative players to focus on being just that instead of being sent out with the mindset of defending & used to primarily to attack the opposition will i believe reap dividends.

    Sorry all..rant over!!!

  • 104 jettson1971 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:14 PM

    twitter rumour earlier – Micah Richards currently staying at Hotel Du Vin in Newcastle and medical set for later today Loan deal? probably garbage, but sumit different to HBA rants

  • 105 jimmysmith // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:14 PM

    Sissoko, Cabaye, Debuchey, Santon, Remy, Collocini these are Pardew favorites and have plenty of flair. Now we have De Jong, Cabella, Rivière, Jaanmatt. Newcastle are not a team lacking in flair or attacking intent. We play in the EPL, the most unforgiving league in the world. Gouffran works, but even he is a player with real pace, power and attacking intent.

    We sold Cabaye, coinciding with a bad run in injuries to key players and a second half of the season where there was nothing to play for. That’s what happened.

  • 106 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM

    My question is simple to the doesn’t work hard enough brigade. Flair players generally don’t track back or work hard as often as others

    So would you guys welcome a robben or a Di maria? Players that don’t work hard lose the ball often and surrounded by our current squad

  • 107 Whumpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM

    Anyone going to talk about the youth issue? There’s always someone ready to moan about how crap the club is at bringing them through and how Pards never gives them a chance. But publish an Agricole that suggests the opposite and it’s conveniently ignored.

    The Two Adams plus Aarons, Woodman and others show something IS working. Personalky I find that a lot more exciting than splurging cash on foreigners.

  • 108 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:19 PM

    I’m heading into a meeting so will resume this in a bit, please note this isn’t about HBA but about flair players in general under pardew

  • 109 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:19 PM

    OurToon

    You are grasping at straws. If Ronaldo was at Newcastle you would build a team around him. He is that good so you would look defend areas he may not defend. Or you would play him up top.

    Ben Arfa is not even in the same league so is not worthy to make the effort to do the above.

    Cabella is arguably our flair player now. Would I expect him to defend? Yes. If he plays on the left or right we need players to pitch in.

    I do not want to see a team of Colbacks, but as stated Silva, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, Barkley, Carzola, Hazard all defend for their teams. All probably have more flair than Ben Arfa and that is why they are regarded as good/great players.

    Ben Arfa lacks the next step from being a potentially great player to actually becoming it. I think its more as stated about his intelligence on the pitch and possibly his attitude off and in some cases on the pitch.

    He already thinks he is great thats the problem.

    Its about Ben Arfa at the end of the day, he plays for himself.

    The scenario could be

    A. its a 3 v 2 situation in offensive favour Benny has the ball and he takes 2 players on for effort at goal.

    B. or he takes it and passes too late squanders the chance altogether

    C.or plays it sensibly and uses the 3 v 2 to our advantage and pass their way through to goal for an easier chance?!

    I would bet money on A being the outcome and if it at any point looked like he was going to pass it would turn into B with a last minute “I tired” passed.

    C would never happen.

  • 110 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:19 PM

    Senor Tuff…nice of you to notice. And yes I think my point did go a bit unnoticed!

  • 111 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:20 PM

    jettson

    interesting

    Must admit I dread going into the season with saylor and Willo, although Colo, even though it was only against Sydney looked back to his best.

  • 112 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:22 PM

    mr Magpie ~ 103

    no rant at all, very good post.

  • 113 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:25 PM

    JamesToon

    I read your post up to Silva and Navas do not defend….

    I would argue that all day long. Silva is one of the hardest working players in the PL. He probably covers more ground in the Man City team than anyone else, and is a “Pardew hard working player”

    And lets also compare

    Hart
    Zabaleta Kompany Demichelis Clichy
    Toure Fernandinho
    Navas Silva
    Negredo Aguero

    (If Ben Arfa is in side)
    Krul
    Debuchy Williamson Coloccini Dummett
    Anita Tiote
    Ben Arfa Sissoko Gouffran
    Remy

    The comparison is notable, and when Debuchy was missing it was Mbiwa and out of place CB, in comparison to some 20-30m back up player at City.

    The difference in the sides? 200m+ and proabably more than that in annual wages.

  • 114 GeordieRob // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:25 PM

    Once upon a time there was a talented French winger. He had wonderful technical ability, scored some amazing goals for his club and this fuelled his massive ego.

    But he also had a reputation as a trouble maker. He would have issues with teammates and coaches. There were training ground bust ups and straps. Eventually, despite all of his talent and attacking threat, his coach refused to put up with any more, and the winger was dropped. This lead to his team struggling when injuries mounted. His attacking threat and experience would have been helpful but it just wasn’t worth it anymore.

    The French winger was Samir Nasri. Deschamps just doesn’t know how to handle flair players.

  • 115 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:26 PM

    expatmag…sorry I didn’t get back to you, but I seem to have internet problems.

    I agree about the closing down problems and I really hope Pardew is addressing this – or someone is explaining this to him. It will probably be the latter.

    But as Senor Tuff says, I just hope Benny would be given another chance – a real chance and that he would grab it, cause with the new pace in this team I really think he could as so much to our team.

    It just seems Pardew is trying to have a power struggle – Pardew is a egomaniac – and that is just hurting the team. Well that is my opinion and I am only basing ot on what we really know for sure.

  • 116 expatmag // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:27 PM

    Tuff

    Finished that decorating yet????????

  • 117 Pottsclock // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:28 PM

    Was reading an article where Micky Quinn was saying “Is it really that important when a plyer is a few pounds over weight?” Had to laugh !

    Comparisons of today’s standards with yesterday’s – even Sir Bobby’s era – are pointless. The simple fact is that today premiership players need to fitter than ever, cover the pitch and track back when needed. Ones that don’t simply are not picked for their respective teams.

  • 118 Ancientcoptic // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    If Cabella is going to be an attacking midfielder, I would very much hope he isn’t going to defend or track back – if he does, then he isn’t an attacking midfielder by definition.

    I hope for Ben Arfa’s sake he can go join a team and be allowed to go do his job description.

    Ben Arfa having an off day, was more threatening than anything else we could come up with in the attacking department for the last 21 league games of last season.

    I would rather watch Ben Arfa maul a defence and frustratingly miss a shot or pass at the final hurdle, than the alternative tripe that was served up. It seems fairly obvious to me that Ben Arfa just needs some fine tuning… that isn’t going to be at our club.

  • 119 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM

    Spoof

    Sadly maybe, but realistically I think you have to realise no one really gives a rats if you treat us with contempt or not.

    It just shows your limited ability to construct a reasoned conversation with people who don’t share your views.

    I can imagine your whole life has probably been strewn with hissy fits and name calling if you don’t get your own way or receive enough attention.

  • 120 jesperfuglsang - captain of the lemon crew // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM

    I gotta run the weather is calling :D

  • 121 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:32 PM

    GeordieRob

    Liked that haha!

  • 122 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:33 PM

    Ancient

    Ben Arfa maul a defence?

    Like he did before being subbed at half time in the last 21 games of our season as he was that poor?

    Lol

  • 123 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:34 PM

    martoon

    what if you headbutt a player is it time to leave?

  • 124 Ancientcoptic // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:37 PM

    Pawl – yes, but the rest of the team were magnificent in the last 21 games. It was Ben Arfa that stood out as a bad player, in contrast to all the other leading lights. heh.

    My point remains… Ben Arfa is our most dangerous player, even having a bad day he scares the life out of defenders, this is why they have to double up on him… surely you can see that, right?

  • 125 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:39 PM

    Rotanda

    If Zidane headbutted a player/manager/fan whoever and was a Newcastle fan you would stick by him as he is a world class player.

    If Pardew does it he should go?

    How is that fair? could it be because it would suit your needs.

    This is coming from me who thinks Pardew should have been sacked. But I would have also sold Suarez the moment he bit Ivanovic…..

    No place in the game for that behavior, but alot of people wanting Pardew out for his behavior would waiver the same punishment had it been a world class player getting 30+ goals a season.

    I am not saying you would, I am saying most people who want Pardew you out for what he did would, you may not be one of them.

  • 126 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:41 PM

    jesper@67

    your wrong their bonny lad, you must be as most of us say so heh heh heh, sorry m8 but I couldn’t resist.

  • 127 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM

    Ancient….

    He was so bad he was subbed at HALF TIME!

    The rest of the team wasn’t and the hilarious thing was the Soccer Saturday agreed with it!

    Must have been a world beater that day just decided he had done enough this season to sell him to another club with 1 year remaining on his contract…..

    oh wait…. no one wants this supposedly AMAZING player that could probably be available for about 2m or possibly even less if they deem him a problem behind the scenes i.e Barton on a free.

  • 128 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:43 PM

    jesper

    if you want to tell me to “f” off then by all means do so, I do deserve it.

  • 129 Ancientcoptic // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM

    pawl250, wow – Ben Arfa was subbed at half-time in ‘one’ game… classic point your making there… generalizing a player on one game; after being chopped in and out of the team, and played in various positions.

  • 130 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM

    Spoof

    I think you really need help mate, I honestly do.
    All the name calling you do, you should hear yourself go on. You sound like a 14 year old at times. Mummy they’re being nasty to me. Dear me.

    How the hell did I hide exactly? I had to go to work! As soon as I got back I responded to your lovely mature ”jerk” comments. Pot, kettle black and all that.

    I decided that my points and others were totally valid and in no way had we been proved wrong on any count.

    I just agreed that it was unhealthy to spend so much time disliking Pardew when I can’t do a thing about it and then hearing you bore and simper on as you do, just made me think, you know what, life’s too short.

  • 131 Rotonda heights // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:47 PM

    pawl

    no i wouldn’t

  • 132 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:48 PM

    Bottom line ladies and gents….

    Ben Arfa is such a great amazing fantastic magician of a player, hes basically Messi but overweight….

    NOT ONE TEAM IN THE PL….. ACTUALLY SCRATCH THAT.

    APART FROM A TEAM IN WAR-STRUCK UKRAINE NOT ONE OTHER TEAM IN THE WORLD WOULD TAKE UP HIS SERVICES FOR ABOUT 2M.

    HE IS THAT GOOD!

    Sarcasm, you have to love it! I mean a player quoted 12m only a couple year ago?!

    I honesty think 2m would secure you Ben Arfa if wanted.

    No one wants him…. WHY?!

  • 133 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:50 PM

    I would take Chicarito all day long him or Lukaku plus two centre backs. Any truth in the Isla rumour?

  • 134 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:55 PM

    Pawl

    Cause he’s cack.

  • 135 Ancientcoptic // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:55 PM

    Nobody is saying Ben Arfa is Messi, Pawl.

    You seem to have trouble staying on topic, you were critical of my quote “I would rather watch Ben Arfa maul a defence and frustratingly miss a shot or pass at the final hurdle, than the alternative tripe that was served up.”

    It is quite funny, because you have practically said the same things about Ben Arfa yourself. I cannot quite grasp why you want to make Ben Arfa a scapegoat… he is certainly a frustrating player at times, but singled out more so than any of the other underperformers last season?

    We will have to agree to disagree.

    You may carry on with your Ben Arfa bashing.

  • 136 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:56 PM

    Pawl I agree if ur best player headbutted someone you’d back him but you wouldn’t describe Pardew as the best manager would you?

  • 137 martoon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:59 PM

    Rotonda heights @123 – Yes it is definitely a sacking offence BUT his employer decided not to but he was severely punished. Many players also get into altications with the opposition and are punished. However we are talking a player who has (allegedly) got into a fight with his manager and p*ssed off his team mates.
    Could somebody answer me this – if HBA is such a fabulous player as you make out then why are other clubs not beating our door down to buy him or at least take him on loan?

  • 138 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:00 PM

    I blame Laurent Blanc for Ben Arfa’s demise, well thats a bit strong as the biggest villain has got to be Ben Arfa himself, but looking back to when we came 5th Pardew was getting the best out of Benny, for the first time in his career Benny was consistent and playing for the team rather than trying to headline grab for himself and he done so well he got into the Euro 2012 French squad, we all know what happened their and from that point onwards Benny has retreated into his usual headline grabbing attempts when on the pitch, that international debacle seems to have given Benny an i don’t care attitude to his career, should Blanc and Pardew have had discussions about the difficulty of man managing Benny, perhaps they did to no avail, but he has never looked like being the same player since, then again did he get his head down and graft as he saw the French team as being something to fight for, a goal for him, which he now no longer has, I don’t know, all I know is that he is one of the most talented players that I have ever seen and it’s criminal that all his ability has been wasted, it doesn’t really matter who is too blame, it’s the losers who count here, and they are us the fans as we have not been able to witness a genious as we should have, we are the biggest losers, as he still will retire as a millionaire.

  • 139 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:01 PM

    Ben Arfa would be lucky to get a game at Accrington the way he’s been carrying on

  • 140 T.T.V.V.T. // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:02 PM

    Ben Arfa’s not overweight like…

  • 141 Mr Magpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM

    Firstly Rotonda@112, Thanks.

    Secondly i am not a fan of Pardew, the way he comesacross, the style of football he gets us to play etc but also realise that not everything is his fault & love it or hate it he is currently the manager of my club.

    I just think that Ben Arfa has to accept as do all other Newcastle players that Pardew is his manager & if he rightly or wrongly gives him instructions to either defend, drop back & cover the fullbacks runs, mark the nearpost at corners, etc then he should just do it.

    Yes granted this may stifle his & othersattacking threat but otherwise as has been shown by Pardew you wont get played & that he will find another player who will do the job that has been asked of him & you wont even be given the opportunity to play. This would be the same for other managers not just Pardew.

  • 142 JAMSHA // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:05 PM

    arfa haters are pardwed

  • 143 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM

    Don’t talk shit Jamsha

  • 144 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:07 PM

    RH

    so you stand by your claim that Jonas has been Pardewed, and you still disagree with me that his demise is not due to age not allowing him to bomb up and down the wing to support the fullback which is what he was all about, yet when we finished 5th Jonas was the player of the season, but according to you he has been Pardewed, and you then call me because I call you a jerk, well the thing is m8 I called you a jerk because you are one, quite simple really.

    Player of the season Pardewed, boy that takes some beating.

  • 145 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:08 PM

    I see that no one answered my question or more like they avoided answering the question as it may go against the current thought process

  • 146 JamesToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM

    Anyone else think Jeremy Mathieu for €20m to barca is absolutely ridiculous??!! 31 years old ffs

  • 147 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM

    Gutierrez will never be same he’s slowed up and can’t link with Jose Enrique as he’s not here. He’s not pardewed he’s just slowed

  • 148 Whumpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM

    Has anyone actually read the fekkin article?? WTFis the point of writing them if everyone just continues a weeks-old argument that’s bollock-all to do with it??

  • 149 Whumpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:10 PM

    I think fish are expensive.

  • 150 Bambams // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:10 PM

    I am not panicking….Honest…
    But do you lot think thats our signings over ?

    I know Pards has said he still wants to strengthen but can we take that as certain.

    Hate to think we are finished without signing a 15/20+ goal striker….or our long awaited goal scoring CB

  • 151 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:10 PM

    TFL

    you try telling Rotonda that ?

  • 152 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:11 PM

    Whumpie

    you can always take a loan from Wonga to buy one ?????

  • 153 JAMSHA // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:11 PM

    our new home kit ?

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02984/home-kits1_2984008k.jpg

    this looks better with the black wonga logo

  • 154 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:12 PM

    Spoof RH will be sat with his fingers in his ears

  • 155 Whumpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM

    Jonas got slow. Hatem is a fat pain in the arse that throws hissy fits. Pardew has anger issues.

    Meanwhile we have six new players, some brilliant youth prospects and we just won 4-0.

    So. About those pricey fish….

  • 156 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM

    Ancient

    Find where I have said I think he is a great player?

    Even when he was MOTM in early days I would question how?!

    I have always been critical of him. He does great things but he does more poor things.

    I do not have trouble on the topic of Ben Arfa. He is simply a troublemaker who wastes his potential of being a great player with poor decision making and attitude in general.

    I will not say he cannot be a great player, because he could if he has an attitude adjustment. But given it is his character that is the problem then it may just be a case he is a lost cause.

    A waste so to speak.

    I would have sold him last year.

    I do not deny he COULD be our most exciting player, but if I had a player like Cabaye who works hard, sprays balls around the pitch and works hard in the process then we would have more success than someone being greedy and being wasteful in key areas.

    I personally feel Cabella is a better player.

    I also would go as far as saying I think Grenier is better than both.

    Yet Grenier is not a “flair” player in comparison he is more like Cabaye.

    You do not need a flair player to do well in the PL. You need a team that works hard together in both attack and defence. One without the other is pointless.

  • 157 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM

    Whumpie

    I agree! And cheese is too processed these days!

  • 158 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM

    TFL

    fingers in his ears, it’s a rocket up his backside he needs

  • 159 Whumpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:14 PM

    Spoof – lol.

  • 160 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:14 PM

    The debate is not about HBA but is about FLAIR PLAYERS, today it’s HBA tomorrow it’ll be Cabella.

    Pawl – you said would you sack Zidane for a headbutt but you still haven’t answered my question….would you take a Di maria or a robben? Both players don’t track back and lose the ball quite often as they take RISKS

    Not comparing hba to these players but I’m certainly comparing creative players who “don’t work hard enough for the team” it the type of player rather than ability

    Would any of the doesnt work hard enough brigade take a Robben or a Di Maria in our team with the current set up?

  • 161 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:16 PM

    Our toon Robben is a genious and proves it unlike HBA

  • 162 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:17 PM

    Jamsha

    I hate Ben Arfa…. yet I would replace Pardew if given the chance….

    I just dont blame Pardew for Ben Arfa being the person he is.

    Pardewed? no.

    Ridiculous comment, as it would suggest anyone that does not agree with you is Pardewed because of course your opinion is right and everyone thinking anything else is wrong.

    Its all opinions at the end of the day. I personally think your comments are mainly pointless on this blog. Its an opinion but hey oh.

    Pardews opinion is Ben Arfa is more trouble than he is worth, I agree but you do not hey oh.

    Because of that I am Pardewed because I agree with him over the mighty yet a meer blog poster Jamsha….. disgraee…. that is my opinion.

    You are “Kinneared” that is my opinion! This is the new term for speaking absolute KAK!

  • 163 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:18 PM

    Toon from Leeds

    Does he track back? Would he be a genius in our current setup? Would he work hard enough for the team?

    Yes the guy is class no denying that but would he be under pardew and a defensive system?

  • 164 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:19 PM

    Yh Kinneared sounds about right.

  • 165 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:19 PM

    Whumpie

    this fish theme of yours has got me “hooked”, sorry that was poor, very poor.

  • 166 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:19 PM

    Out toon probably not

  • 167 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:20 PM

    Our Toon

    I have answered your question further up #109

    I simply used Ronaldo instead of Di Maria and Robben.

  • 168 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:20 PM

    Our toon

    Di maria and zidane both work hard in attack. Without the ball they moved and dragged defenders out of place. (Past tense of course for zizu). I would argue HBA doesnt even do that. He only ever moves when the ball is at his feet. So i would have Di maria/zizu/robben et.c in my team, but i would not have HBA unless he changed his ways. I don’t think he can, just as i have doubts that pardew can change his over cautious and defensive tactics.

  • 169 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:20 PM

    Pawl

    Did you just say you have been “kinnered”?

  • 170 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:20 PM

    The only way forward for this club is to sack Pardew and bring in a foreign manager with modern tactics

  • 171 Ian Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:21 PM

    For all those who see HBA as the profoundly gifted one who’s being treated unfairly and it’s not his fault.

    People are born with varying ability and natural talent usually succeeds over hard work. However, people who are dedicated and work hard more often than not are rewarded just as much as those who have natural ability. In football there are countless examples of those players with a natural talent not possessing the commitment, motivation and dedication to reach their potential or simply last the course.

    In contrast by personal admission we had at the toon Kevin Keegan who admits to it all being down to hard work rather than having natural ability. From Scunthorpe to Hamburg collecting two European player of the year awards along the way. He didn’t need to be motivated because he recognised that motivation comes from within. He was fitness personified.

    A good holiday read for all HBA devotees, is “Bounce” by Matthew Syed. It’s a book described as ” The myth of talent and the power of practice”. Duncan Bannatyne who I thought had never said anything memorable suggested it as a must read for anyone who believes hard work will achieve success. Certainly Jack Colback is a believer.
    He clearly wants to be a better version of himself.

  • 172 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:21 PM

    Although Our Toon

    I would take Robben

    I would NOT take Di Maria I think he is not all that he is made out to be. I personally would have sold him over Ozil, not that Ozil has been amazing since his move.

  • 173 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:21 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 12:12 PM

    Ilovetoon

    I put up a stat during the Argentina Swiss game and it was about Di Maria, from what I can remember he had 11 shots, pass completion of 61 percent, lost the ball a staggering 55 times, didn’t track back yet the manager kept him on and on the 128th minute he scored the winner, when Sabella was asked about why he kept him on especially when he was having a shocker the manager said he knows players like that are game changers and match winners, it only takes a minute for them to turn the game

    lost the ball 55 times, 61 percent pass completion
    ——————————————————-

    You are using a straw man fallacy. If Di Maria would do that game after game, what do you think his position would be in world football? Would he even be playing football if he averages that kinda statistics game after game?

    Ben Arfa has shown only a pathetic few games of real quality. But disappears almost in all others. He loses the fall far too often causing us to be in the backfoot and you could see the body language of our other players with his terrible decision making. That frustration.

    So once again, stop it with the Robben comparison. Laughable. Robert/Ginola all were at the top of their game in attacking sense. Their defensive liabilities were negligible.

  • 174 MadisonToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:21 PM

    Our Toon

    The other important part about the flair players you point to is that you need to be able to afford having a player who doesn’t track back on the team. If the rest of your players/team are good enough to handle the defensive duties while allowing someone complete creative freedom going forward (knowing full well that they won’t do anything defensively) then having those type of players is fine. Arsenal saw it last season with Ozil – they couldn’t afford to have him on the pitch all the time as they couldn’t always completely be without a tenth outfield player on the defensive side of the ball.

    I would say Newcastle are nowhere near strong enough defensively to be able to afford playing a purely flair player – therefore I’d say HBA cannot be used in the squad as it is right now without us shipping lots of goals. Since that was a major issue for us last season, having HBA in the team (with all of the behavioral issues that go with that) would just exacerbate the problem.

  • 175 Mr Magpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:22 PM

    our toon@106
    In answer to your question, flair players who want to play work back & defend under Pardew or they dont get a game be that Ben Arfa, Robben or whoever. Unfortunately Pardew wants them to do that & he picks the team.

  • 176 Big Pappa Cissé // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:22 PM

    @ pawl

    Hba has a bad attitude yet I don’t remember him going on strike & leaving us high and dry against City like Yohan did.

    HBA didn’t headbutt a fellow professional, shove a linesman, Call Pellegrini a cu*t or break numerous bad records despite being double the age of Benny.

    Yet Hatem is the immature wild child ? . Funny how that works eh .

  • 177 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:23 PM

    Markaccus

    I don’t know why Zidane comes into this as I think he did work for the team I was answering pawl for the headbutt sacking claim comment

    Markaccus do you think that a Di Maria or a Robben would thrive in out team? Yes they move off the ball but do they track back?

  • 178 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    pawl

    just forget about it m8, they won’t listen as they are obsessed with the belief that Pardew is to blame for all that is wrong, it’s not worth the hassle m8, it really isn’t, are you aware of the new player who has been Pardewed, our player of the season when we came 5th, yes Jonas has now been Pardewed, it has nothing to do with getting old, oh no he has been Pardewed, jeez.

  • 179 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:25 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:14 PM

    Would any of the doesnt work hard enough brigade take a Robben or a Di Maria in our team with the current set up?
    ———————–

    SURE! provided they prove their class in the attacking third game after game consistently and terrorizing defenders like those 2 world class players would.

    Arfa disappears in 3/4 of the games and pops up in the 1/4 with his magic.

    Next argument please.

  • 180 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:26 PM

    Ilovetoon

    Do you even read what other people post on here? Please refer to the section where I have clearly stated I’m NOT comparing players based on ability but more on types of players!! Come on mate its not hard just read the comments fully please.

  • 181 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:27 PM

    I don’t think any player has been pardewed. Some players were just not good enough ie Obertan, marveaux etc

  • 182 T.T.V.V.T. // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:27 PM

    Got to agree with the Jonas has diminised argument.

    Pards is not the greatest gaffer in the world but he’s blameless when it comes to the Argy Bargy.

    I think time has caught up with him quickly. No longer tricky, losing pace, his abilities have diminished.

    In fact i seem to remember Pards playing him regularly when we were all calling for him to be benched.

    Nah, he’s no longer a player good enough to be playing in the EPL. Shame, because he’s a nice bloke.

  • 183 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:27 PM

    I think we all want to deep down blame Pardew for HBA but it is hard to ignore the stories regarding Marv and HBA causing upset among the team.

    Yes I think it is wrong for Pardew to try and develop a part of HBA’s games that was not there.

    But it’s also true that he didnt give enough when on the field.

    Maybe if he had been given a run in the hole towards the end of the season he may have shown what he could do but I get the feeling that the trust between him and Pardew is gone.

    HBA has to accept some responsibility in his downfall.

    As for Armstrong, I was actually more impressed by the footwork shown by Campbell to provide the assist. Ran at defenders and shook them brilliantly.

    He was always positionally very good in the cameos he made for first team but he was never given the ball.

  • 184 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:28 PM

    Madison Toon

    Very food post mate and a valid one, I personally think 2 holding midfielders should be adequate cover, 1 full back attacks the other sits.

    We can accomodate creative players but we need a system that would help them

  • 185 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:29 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:26 PM

    You are mentioning players in the brackets of Zidanes and Robbens and Ronaldos and Messis and suddenly you mention you are not comparing their ability??

    As i’ve said obviously all the players names YOU mentioned for comparison will thrive in our team with their lack of defensive ability because they PUNISH teams relentlessly GAME AFTER GAME. That’s what you get for bringing in names like ROBBEN. They are WORLD CLASS FOOTBALLERS.

    So you need to make your argument more convincing then telling i can’t read.

  • 186 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:29 PM

    BPC

    You have a point.

    Pardew should be sacked. I have already said that.

    Ben Arfa acting like a spoilt brat after being paid ALOT of money should be sacked, or more commonly known in Foobtall – sold.

    Cabaye went on strike. I never agreed with it, he is a great player but simply put I would have sold him as no one is bigger than the club. Alas he was my favorite player for Newcastle until he was sold. As when he was on the pitch he was quality. Enough to warrant £20m move to PSG and be a consistent starter for France. Does not mean I agree with what he did, and as said I would have sold him at that point. Atleast he kept in shape whilst on strike.

    All the above I would have “sacked” “sold” or whatever.

    Yet Cabaye has been a model professional in comparison Ben Arfa trying to cause issues behind the scenes, showing up overweight, spitting his dummy out when he doesnt get his way, not helping the youth set up or have time for them.

    Personally would be glad to see the back of him and Pardew for that matter.

    Jamsha is probably having a nervous break down reading that sentence as it goes against his bible of logic.

  • 187 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:30 PM

    T.T.V.V.T.

    Personally I disagree in part.

    Yes Jonas was on the decline. But Pardew making him babysit Santon did him over. He became conditioned into that role and showed no attacking prowess.

  • 188 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:31 PM

    Our Toon

    Spot on.

    That’s how Ajax have managed it in the past. Your 2 holding mids cover the full backs.

    Arguably one should be enough if the other sits.

    There is no need for both full backs to be up the field at the same time.

  • 189 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:32 PM

    Lfguad

    It’s not hba or Marveaux but more about the types of players they are

    As for Jonas he defo is finished but I still think he could of done a job as a holding midfielder, Jonas underrated strength was to win free kicks when the team was under pressure

  • 190 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:33 PM

    What’s that old phrase? Form is temporary, class is permanent! You cannot blame Pardew for players losing pace, form etc

  • 191 Pottsclock // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:33 PM

    Under Kinnear Ben Arfa would have been gone already because JFK would have accidently called him “Fatem” in a post-match interview.

    The resultant fallout would be the same as it was with Insomnia, I mean N’Zogbia, where he would linger in the reserves of the team he went to for the same reasons he didn’t get regular first team football with us.

  • 192 Markaccus // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:34 PM

    Our toon

    yes i think they would thrive. The reason is this…. Robben and di maria would usually choose the right option in attack, and make life difficult for defenders when off the ball. They would be in goal scoring positins or getting assists. HBA on the other hand puts pressure on the team by making bad choices and has no movement off the ball. The LEAST a flair player should do is try to make up his OWN mistakes. Robben will have a nibble at a player who robs him, and also he will try and close down a player on the rare occasion he mis places a pass to them. Its a small diference but it relieves that little biy of imediate pressure.

    It is hard to answer your question directly, because the flair players we are talking about have a different attitude to the one displayed by HBA. But i believe that YES, there is room in our squad for a flair player, as long as it is of the pedigree you have outlined. HBA is not one of these imho

  • 193 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:34 PM

    Ilovetoon

    Them players need the ball to punish teams, we play containing counter attacking football with not much possession!! Them players would play well when I possession but will do without the ball more often which means…..”no hard work” or “no tracking back”

  • 194 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:35 PM

    Big Pappa Cissé

    Do you not remember him going on strike to join us though.

    And doing the same again at Lyon to move to Marseille.

    He has a reputation as a trouble maker. I think he matured on Tyneside but it wouldnt surprise me if he has gone back to his old ways.

    We can argue the merits of management style to him all day but he is clearly not blameless.

    He would be amazing if he was given the treatment Cruyff received at Ajax and in the dutch squad. Unfortunately you have to earn that and he hasnt quite done that.

  • 195 Spoof // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:35 PM

    LGFUAD21

    Jonas made his name by babysitting Enrique, yet you blame Pardew when he was doing exactly the same with Santon, so how does that work ?

  • 196 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:37 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:32 PM

    We can afford to have players like Robbens and Di Marias in our team no problem.

    But we cannot afford to have the likes of Arfa, Zaha, Snodgrass etc being lazy because they are all average players in an average team and not world class players. they need to defend and track back and contribute to the cause of the team.

    Pardew has handled Arfa terribly i agree but arfa’s enemy is himself first.

  • 197 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:37 PM

    Santon is a different kettle of fish. Brilliant going forward, extremely suspect at the back

  • 198 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:37 PM

    Our Toon

    Agreed.

    I dont think Pardew knows how to integrate those players into a team.

    On HBA though. I wouldve given him more of a chance but it does seem here like people would have built the team around him.

    Had we done that I can imagine we would have had some brilliant spectacles and some woeful ones too. Not to mention no plan B when he gets injured.

  • 199 JAMSHA // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:37 PM

    wait for a year wen u ppl.will say cabella is shit… an yet says its not the mangers fault… even moyes would do things that pardew cant do… an thats getng best out of the players….

  • 200 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:37 PM

    http://youtu.be/N6Ti-EI3KM0

    I’m well excited about Cabella. There is some world class stuff in this video.

  • 201 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    LGF

    It was more babysitting RTaylor.

    Santon was very much on the bench the majority of that season. Yet I would have done the same thing.

    Jonas was never a world beater going forward and his final ball has always been questionable at best.

    He used his grit and determination to make us more solid at the back. Left back was our weakest position once Enrique left, and RTaylor stepped in.

    Jonas was pivotal in helping us defend it. An unsung hero and in many ways he fit the mold perfectly. In that I take my hat of to Pardew for seeing Jonas and his never quit attitude to track back for the team, not for Jonas and his own ambition to transfer to a bigger club.

    He was a what you want in most players at the club, a role model, never acts out, does what he is told, and most of tries his hardest for the shirt.

    He as stated above is a genuinely nice bloke too. Hard to slate the lad in all honesty. But age has caught up to him.

  • 202 ToonFromLeeds // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    Jamsha class players will shine despite Pardews tactics look at Cabaye!!!

  • 203 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    Ilovetoon

    I never mentioned Zidane footballing ability but more his headbutt, you saw names and just assumed mate, read all of my posts from today you’ll get a clearer picture, might even surprise you mate

    I mentioned Zidane footballing ability about 2 posts ago responding to Markaccus I think but before that it was about his headbutt

    Creative flair players need to be in teams set up to play football not hoof ball

  • 204 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:39 PM

    This is hilarious!
    The response matches the sutuation!!!

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=544918362320367&id=338233632988842

  • 205 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:39 PM

    195ilovetoon8788

    Amen.

    Did nobody learn from Germany’s world cup win.

    Team > Individual and the individual in question there is Messi not HBA.

    And people can say all day long about Messi not turning up or hitting his best. His stats proved otherwise in terms of what he was doing. People perhaps expect too much.

  • 206 T.T.V.V.T. // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:40 PM

    LGFUAD21 Dont get me started on Santon fella.

  • 207 Ancientcoptic // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:41 PM

    All of the negative information out (including fake picture) about Ben Arfa is rumour, so if we are going on the basis of rumour as fact….

    How about the rumour that Ben Arfa was offered a contract, but on less money which he turned down. Would that be grounds for trying to force a player out of the club before their contract ran down? I think so… (I don’t believe that btw, but whilst we are on the rumour mill as fact)

  • 208 JamesToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM

    I think some people on here hold such a grudge against pardew and just sometimes won’t accept its the players fault not pardew’s.

    HBA has always had these kind of problems, he had it had Lyon and Marseille.

    Players like m’biwa i’d blame pardew for, keeps on playing him at right back

  • 209 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM

    Ilovetoon

    I’m not bothered about hba mate, I’m more concerned about the future creative / flair players that will look to beat a man or 2 and take risks or should I say lack of, my point is that we are very rigid as a team and the way we set up these type of players will always fall by the way side under pardew. As Tevez said nice man but on match days he’d just look straight through me as he had no idea how to best use me as a player

  • 210 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:45 PM

    pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    You’re right it was Raylor at the beginning. I do rememebr and interview with Pardew suggesting that having Jonas in front of him helped (in reference to Santon) arguably he babysat both.

    I think giving his confidence issues the last thing Pardew wanted was Santon getting skinned.

    I agree Jonas brought a lot to us. I just think his effects were diminishing. Wouldnt have minded trialling him more in the DM role and he was great for closing games out.

  • 211 Yellow Belly // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:46 PM

    Madison Toon – At last some who knows football and does not think sticking 5 flair players up front is the key to success.

    That’s why I think Isla could be a good buy if we sell Sissoko

    Colback has to play and I think he will play midfield left cutting in if needed or overlapping with the full back, he used to be a DL so no problem. He will run all day giving 100% making the left wing secure.

    Isla is identical but on the right. Will run all day, cut in if need, overlap with the fullback etc.

    A combination of these 2 on the wings plus Tiote would allow Cabella a free role to do his thing, if he gets stranded then Colback or Isla would cut in to cover.
    I think that formation would work, our history of 4-4-2 are used to flair on the wings battle in the middle. This would be the opposite with SDJ dropping deep to link up with Cabella. Rather exciting

  • 212 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:46 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM

    I MAY agree with you depending on how Cabella plays. Arfa is the first flair player under Pardew. Arfa has been proven to be quite inconsistent before he came here. But not Cabella. He’s been very consistent in his attacking play with plenty of threats and he has been outstanding with no discplinary problems.

    If Cabella falls by the way side, then i can say Pardew is truely terrible. Until then, verdicts out. I cannot accept Pardew being totally at fault for Arfa falling out. Arfa is just as much to blame with his rubbish work rate which infuriates the rest of the team.

  • 213 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:47 PM

    194Spoof

    I dont think he was quite babysitting Enrique. Him and Enrique had a much better chemistry and Enrique was more solid at the back.

    Its a shame because Jonas was a decent cross short of being a great winger.

    Will always have my respect but it is sadly time for him to move on.

  • 214 martoon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:47 PM

    Big Pappa Cissé @175 – Never ceases to amaze me how you will drag up sticks to beat Pardew with. The headbutt has been discussed to death yes he could have been sacked but his employer decided not to but heavily fined him instead. The linesman incident was not malicious he just grabbed his arm to draw his attention to an incident – over zealous yes. As for swearing – You will hear the same ‘industrial’ language in a male office or factory every day – the only difference here was it was picked up by an effects microphone.
    I personally don’t know Pardew he might well be a horrible man but the reasons you drag up are pathetic!

  • 215 Mister Tuff // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:48 PM

    expat – afternoon/evening.
    No still decorating – the missus got the paint some time ago -needless to say ran out of paint. When I tried to get the same paint locally -was informed it had been discontinued. so tracked some down on Ebay -just been delivered ths morning.
    Jumped in the shower -eager to get cracking again -to find the bloody shower not working. No water -this is usually the solenoid. Found a spare in the shed -in working order (resistance tested) so will probably do the shower later -bash on with the painting to catch the natural light.
    Never watched yesterdays match – do you think Riviere can “put himself about” on the pitch.

  • 216 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:49 PM

    Ancient

    Its not rumor mate, my colleague is friends with some of the younger team players in Newcastle who train with the first team.

    Used to play with a certain individual a school level and goes on a couple of nights out with the younger lads in the Newcastle team.

    He confirmed it to my work colleague that Benny was causing problems. I know it as a fact.

    Whether you choose to think otherwise is up to you.

    All I do know is Benny is causing issues, has no time for youth set up. Same was for Marveaux hence getting dropped and is in the same boat.

    They were the two player specifically mentioned known to cause trouble and not get along with the squad like everyone else.

  • 217 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:49 PM

    @Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM

    You are being too extreme in your view. I suggest you be a bit more balanced. We have not been 100% hoofball. We have had a dramatic improvement of our football this season with lots of football played on the ground.

    When we play football, Arfa has cost us possession far too many times causing us to be in the backfoot. And his decision making resonates throughout the team.

    Players who make runs don’t bother because they feel he will just take it on his own. And then he doesn’t pass to them and it frustrates the team. I can understand Pardew saying he disrupts the team. If i was Anita, i would have punched him, the amount time he made runs into the box to be completely overlooked by blasting it to the moon.

  • 218 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:52 PM

    JamesToon

    Nailed it bud.

    Mbiwa is a victim of Pardew and in fairness the strength of the team in general.

    I mean Bobby used to play STaylor at right back when he first came onto the scene.

    Its clearly a bandage on the team. In the sense that you have to make do and get on with what you have.

    Mbiwa for me deserves a centre back slot. But Pardew may have been forced into playing him right back at times.

    I.e Vertonghen at Spurs.

    It happens, but I do not like how Williamson, and STaylor gets the nod before Mbiwa despite his potential to be twice the player of them both.

  • 219 MadisonToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:53 PM

    Ourtoon –

    Two DMs should be enough cover and with our current setup I think it would provide more of an opportunity for us to use a player like HBA in the side. It would restrict somewhat how much our wingbacks should get involved which would be at least slightly different from last season, but who knows what Pardew will choose tactically to do with them.

    Yellow Belly –

    I like a combination of Colback/Anita/Tiote where we have some presence with Colback or Anita, and an enforcer in Tiote providing cover for our other players to be a bit more fluid in the approach in the opposition’s half.

    Apart from the World Cup I haven’t seen much of Isla although he certainly showed up well there! I’m excited to see how well SDJ provides the important link between our striker(s) and the midfield – something we didn’t have at all at the end of last season once Cabaye left. I think combination with Cabella will certainly be exciting, but we’ll have to see what kind of freedom Pardew is comfortable with coming from those players. All in all, though, I’m looking forward to the City game and learning how much Pardew will adapt his tactical approach given the relatively different look of our starting XI.

  • 220 manxpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:55 PM

    Flair players who consistantly do there job = no problem
    Flair players who don’t consistantly do there job = problem

    Quite simple really

  • 221 ilovetoon8788 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:56 PM

    @manxpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:55 PM

    Hit the nail on the head there. Hope the likes of ‘Our Toon’ can understand that.

  • 222 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 1:57 PM

    Ilovetoon

    Keep in mind the PL is a much more competitive league than L1 (French first division).

    Cabella may not be as attacking as the quality he is attacking is better than that he will play in L1.

    Time will tell, but Pardew is an issue at the club for me. Not in that he breaks players and the way they play. But that the players we have are not suited to his style of football.

    Yet I do believe a great player will shine no matter who the manager is.

  • 223 MadisonToon // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:02 PM

    IloveToon

    The other thing about the flair player issue is that innately creative flair players will be more consistent when they are told to go out there and use their flair. When creative players are told to go out there and play defense and a little bit of offense when the situation allows, you will end up getting much less consistency. It would be the same scenario as telling Tiote to try and create opportunities through killer balls while playing a bit of enforcer when the opportunity arises – we would see a much less consistent Tiote who would end up looking like a pretty poor player. I’m not saying HBA should play or that he is devoid of fault (far from it), but some amount of his inconsistency needs to be put back on the coaching.

  • 224 outsidethebox // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:03 PM

    west ham 1 wellingto 2 …..puts it into perspective ac injured not playing …wellingto second bottom of league …could be worse problems as to whether benny can turn it around and put in the effort and merit a first team spot..

  • 225 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:03 PM

    Yellow Belly

    I think people need to distinguish between Cabaye’s creativity and say HBA’s or Cabellas.

    This is why IMO Grenier would have been the best like for like replacement for Cabaye.

    5 flair players up top may work if you are Real Madrid but we dont have that luxury.

  • 226 Mr Magpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:07 PM

    madison toon@218
    If your playing colback/anita/tiote….where is sissoko playing or is he not?

  • 227 Our Toon // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:09 PM

    Ilovetoon & Manxpie

    Flair players when given freedom to do there job = no problem (finishing 5th)

    Flair players when restricted = problem (fighting for relegation, break all kinds of unwanted records)

    :)

  • 228 LGFUAD21 // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:10 PM

    222MadisonToon

    Management 101 in any field.

    You get better overall results if you push people to their strengths rather than trying to improve their weaknesses.

    For HBA to have been best we shouldve made it someone elses job to plug the holes.

    If we think its too risky playing him RW and loosing the ball. Either get a better RB defensively and dont have them bombing on or have a DM track back.

    If you watch De Boers team they have this position switching down to a T.

    If a player steps out of his position (full back advances, winger cuts in) another player must move into his position to maintain shape. Its almost like a chess match.

    If you pay a lot of attention to Ajax you will frequently see this combination of moves.

    Winger cuts in, RB advances into Winger starting berth, DM drops into RB position then another midfield will either move across to take space vacated by DM or a more attacking CM will drop back into a DM position.

    Obviously the system only works with more controlled build up and it has to be a real team effort. Flair players’ movement has to be more calculated but it is Total Football through and through.

    I’m not saying thats how to play but its generally seen as the safer option to attacking at pace with unpredictable flair play.

  • 229 Pottsclock // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:12 PM

    Frankly, our defenders are simply not good enough to defend on their own with support from the attacking players tracking back.
    I we had world class defenders then perhaps we could discuss giving more license to flair players and less defensive duties.
    Why have we not got better defenders? Now that’s a long discussion….

  • 230 Lilongwe Geordie // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:12 PM

    Ha, what a refreshing and different topic we seem to be discussing today!

    Pardew is rubbish. HBA is selfish. I’d say that both are far too egotistical to make this work, and in an ideal world I’d be happy seeing both of them head over the Tyne Bridge ne’er to return.

    Still, for HBA, I don’t see why we are discussing wanting him to track back. I certainly don’t want to see him do that. As for all these other players that are similar style players that track back, nonsense. The issue in terms of HBA’s work rate or lack of has nowt todo with tracking back. All these flair players, including HBA can be seen tracking back and making a challenge occasionally, but that isn’t the norm, and nor would anyone want it to be – except maybe Pards.

    However what they do, which HBA doesn’t do as often, is press high up, harry defenders and pressure the ball. HBA could easily do more of this if the attitude was there. It isn’t. Never has been. That is why he plays for NUFC rather than a team challenging for trophies every year. He also makes bad decisions; he does, you see them every time he plays. All players do, but to be at the top (which is where his talent should be) then you can’t be as poor. The difference is in the percentage of times the top players get it right. Far more often. That is why you see the more limited players playing sensible when they could try and beat a few men. HBA hasn’t developed to know when he should and shouldn’t run or pass, cross or shoot.

    However Pardew has now ostracised him in a ridiculous fashion which is making it harder to sell him, and he totally mismanaged him last year. Once Cabaye went, HBA was the creativity that Pardew needed to harness, he couldn’t, doesn’t have the nous, or the humility to take his cap in hand and make things right. Pardew is completely limited in his managerial ability. We will no doubt see it again this season.

    We have Cabella now who according to numerous French sports journos is as talented as HBA but with a better all round game and end product. So it is the end of the road for HBA at SJP. I wish him luck, and hope he can solve his issues, but he is coming to the tail end of his career.

    It would be great if the club and player could get together and resolve this, find Benny a new club that would suit him, and if needed pay the difference between what HBA earns here and what a new club could pay him. No point having him here sulking and not playing. The lad needs help, not being ostracised and vilified.

    Another manager would probably get more out of HBA, but never more than the players attitude allows.

  • 231 martoon // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    indykaila News ?@indykaila ·1 hr
    Loïc Remy has taken a €20,000 per-week pay-cut to join Liverpool and play Champions League football. #LFC

    Interesting if true!

  • 232 pawl250 // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    Ourtoon

    Who exactly was the flair player who made us finish 5th?

    The team was

    Krul
    Simpson STaylor Coloccini RTaylor
    Obertan Cabaye Tiote Jonas
    Best Ba

    Flair? 5th?

    I think your will find your beloved was on the bench the majority of that season.

  • 233 Lilongwe Geordie // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    Wow, apologies for the essay, but I have just read through near 200 pots of HBA pros and cons and once I got started more just kept coming to mind!

  • 234 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:14 PM

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=544940838984786&id=338233632988842

    You’ve got to see this.

  • 235 Sliema // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:14 PM

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=544918362320367&id=338233632988842

  • 236 manxpie // Jul 23, 2014 at 2:55 PM

    Brendan rodgers has it right when he said
    Wether in attack or defence as a team the commitment has to be exactly the same

    Now he didn’t do to bad with his team last year did he?




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