The new FA Chairman Greg Dyke has made it a priority that he somehow gets more English players playing in the Premier League, and he has already criticized the policies of both Newcastle and Sunderland, for recruiting too many players from the continent.
Greg Dyke – new FA Chairman
But Greg got some support last week from the Premier League clubs, who agreed to work with the FA to get more players into their teams, and earlier this week Chelsea manager Joe Mourinho said he would be happy to sit down with the FA, and help English football in any way he can.
However, Dyke has already blasted the two big north-east clubs for not playing enough English players in their sides:
“Sunderland’s first game of the season against Fulham there were only four players on the pitch at the start of the game who were actually qualified to play for England.
“Mind you in the Newcastle team beaten 4-0 by Manchester City on that same opening weekend it was even worse – there was only one English player in their starting line-up.”
We agree it’s a bit of a dilemma that not many English players are playing in the top English league, but there are different ways of looking at why that’s the case.
Dyke’s view is that it’s because too many players are coming in from abroad and preventing Englishmen from getting a game.
But another view is that it means the English players must improve, because they are currently not good enough, and the new St George’s Park facility is the FA’s national football center on a 330-acre site at Burton upon Trent in Staffordshire.
The facility was opened last October, and all coaching and development will be undertaken there by the FA, for all the England national football teams at the different levels.
That’s a good approach, and once we make our young English players better than they are today, we should see more of them playing in the Premier League.
Well that’s at least one viable approach to getting more English players participating in the Premier League.
It might even work.
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148 comments so far
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Comment #81Spoof,
To be honest, I could happily name you another 20 odd players that have just as much talked up potential as those Keegan named. But potential is worth zip unless it is realised and that requires proper coaching and development. England are light years away, they should be targeting 2032 World Cup to win, not Quatar in 8 years!!
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:52 PM
Comment #82Keegan,
The lad is a kid still. If anything he should be on loan this year. I’d say he is well behind Good at the moment. It looks like all the talk by the club of sorting more loan deals for our top youngsters has sort of fallen by the wayside again. Shame as it hinders their development, and will end up with another underachieving crop.
ArtyH
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:52 PM
Comment #83Hi Jail, I know what you mean mate, just hoping against all hope, LOL’s
mattnufc
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Comment #84@Stephen
Saido Berahino, looked really good last u-21 game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRr-Son418s
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Comment #85Oh, and last season he missed a fair bit due to injury, which held him back. A year or 2 from first team level at least.
DevonToon
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Comment #86Money is the sole problem killing football. The premier league, as the richest league in the world, give clubs the power to go and poach any other leagues best players. Look at spain, the league as a whole is broke, but that has forced most teams to churn out more and more young talent… german football was the same for years… its funny how the 3 best national teams spain, germany, brazil, had or have had in the case of germany, crippling money problems
Transfer Sage
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:57 PM
Comment #87The simple answer is that there are not enough good english players not…or in the 70s when there was more than double english players in the league.
The long answer is much more complex. Why?
Not enough high level coaches in England (less than 10% of what there is in spain). This means from a young age, before academies kids are not trained always trained to get to their potential. Also too many picked as big for their age which negates skill at an early age.
It’s a system that needs changing from grass roots.
but even then once kids get in academies they don’t kick on enough, so something must be wrong with coaching.
If countries like spain, germany, belgium, portugal, brazil, argentina, etc etc can all produce technical players there is no reason we can’t either.
It’s not like the 30% english players in the league are the best players either, most of them are average-below average…only a few are good enough to get on the world stage.
Should work with clubs to produce more english players, even if it’s a financial incentive.
Transfer Sage
Sep 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM
Comment #88i still don’t get why the prem league is dubbed best in the world.
team for team
1st v 1st
20th v 20th
and everything in between i think england would be lucky to come out 3rd.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Comment #89Devon,
Of all the minutes played by every club in last years Bundesliga only 6.2% of them were by German U21’s. Hardly impressive in terms of churning out young talent.
Still, money is killing the game, and that is another reason why the FA will merely paper over the cracks as they know the Premier league is the real authority in English football now.
Spoof
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:04 PM
Comment #90LG
the coaching is what I was referring to @38, as you say talked up potential means nothing, we have had plenty of talk up potential who have either failed or as yet not proven their talent, Kadar, Vuckic, Sammy, Ferguson have all disappointed, Campbell, Armstrong, Bigi and Dummett are next in line, lets hope for more from them.
I’ve just mentioned 8 lads there, who may yet prove themselves, but I wonder how many of those would now have £6/7m price tags on their heads if they hadnever been a Newcastle player and looked decent over the last couple of seasons in the Championship, I’m sure Brum would have at least a £6m price on Fergie’s head after last seasons showing, it’s a huge gamble going into the Championship, it’s such a massive step up for them.
Stephen Keegan
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:04 PM
Comment #91I think this year you will see why we are the best league in the world, with 6 teams strong enough to win the league, La liga is RM barc, Germany Munich have dominated for time, Italy is a strong case with 5/6 teams able for the title, i just dont think the money is there and ultimately thats how the leagues progress is with investment!!
OhSholaAmeobi
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Comment #92Neither Capello nor Hodgson have bothered to come up to the North East, us and Sunderland were constantly ignored when we did have the players in the team (Bent, Nolan) so they can go f*** themselves.
Notice he doesn’t have the balls to criticize the bigger clubs.
I’m no mackem but Sunderland had Westwood, O’Shea, Colback, Johnson, Gardner, Fletcher etc in their team yet the Chelsea team last night only had Cole and Lampard…
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Comment #93Sage,
I agree, it starts way before clubs even get involved in terms of academies. This issue is brought up every time the World Cup comes around and we realise how woefully lacking we are. Even our top players aren’t really a match on the big stage for the Worlds elite. But the FA implement knew directives to demonstrate what they are doing, but they do it at a level where it isn’t really relevant. It HAS to start at the very youngest, and work up. It can’t start with players already 18-21, it has to be younger.
Fridge
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Comment #94The solution is a difficult one. Inflated prices because there is a lack of english players with enough quality. The ones who do have quality are too expensive. The bigger clubs can afford to pay for them like zaha, rodwell, oxlade chamberlain. Everybody else has to look abroad to be able to compete on the pitch. The fact that english players arn’t good enough must have something to do with training methods from an early age. Educate the coaches for a start. You cannot become a great football player without advise from good coaches, unless you have exreme talent, and those players who do have extreme talent will make it regardless.
OhSholaAmeobi
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM
Comment #95Never understood why English players cost more. I guess the really good ones are rare, but it’s not the player, it’s the way they’re trained and coached. If you have the right coaches you can turn raw young players into good established ones.
roy
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:10 PM
Comment #96We are the home of football, but the rest of the world has moved on while we wallow in the past. The days are long gone when we pulled gems out of the mines pardon the pun or the shipyards.
Coach
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Comment #97This isn’t just a problem in football, it’s a problem in all sports and in fact goes beyond sport. You can probably guess from my user name that I’m a sports coach, not football to be fair but that isn’t relevant, I see the same problems in every sport and the only reason why football suffers so badly is that it has enough money and a structure that allows it’s own greed to make matters worse than they need to be.
The attitude of large numbers of the youth in the UK towards their physical fitness, quality of food and alcohol intake means that despite the facilities available to them and the numbers of them involved in football at a low level, they will never be elite athletes. Unless discipline is imposed at a young age and that is carried through teenage years, they will always be second rate at best and many will fail completely.
Obviously there are exceptions to this but the numbers are so low that classic business supply and demand kicks in pushing up the price of these players.
It isn’t a co-incidence that problems with obesity and binge drinking exist in the country at the same time as we have a shortage of sportsmen and women who are able to reach the top of their sports. Blaming clubs like ours shows a lack of understanding which is worrying when it comes from such a high level in the sports management.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Comment #98Spoof,
We binned Kadar a while back. Sammi won’t cut it, and Ferguson has started to struggle for Brum, dropped a couple of times recently and then hauled off just the other night after 49 minutes after being at fault for a goal thy conceded.
Vukic is class, but may need to leave to flourish. He has to play regularly or he will never make it. Coaching takes you so far, competitive football takes you on from there. We haven’t allowed our kids that, and we are in danger of doing it again if Campbell/Streete/Satko/Mbabu and potentially Vuckic, Good and Bigi all need to go out if they aren’t going to play. I’m not sold on Dummett yet. I still have David Edgar and Paul Huntington fresh in the memory, and they dropped out of contention pretty sharpish. I haven’t seen much of Dummy to say he is any different.
OhSholaAmeobi
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:20 PM
Comment #99Lilongwe
Who do we send out on loan though? Good was in the fold as soon as Taylor was suspended and Willo injured, Haidara and Dummett both need to be kept while Ryan Taylor recovers, and Bigi/Gosling are 5th/6th choice for centre mid.
Fully agree with sending out 1 or 2 of Mbabu/Satka/Streete as well as Campbell, Vuckic and Sammy/Obertan though.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Comment #100OhShola,
Who do we send out? As many as possible. Dummett has a one year extension, he and Newton should both stay at the club and show that they can or can’t cut it. Simple. We could loan Haidara out, but I think when fit he will ease back in front of Dummy without too much trouble.
Anita, Tiote, Cabaye, Sissoko, Marveaux Jonas could play in centre mid. There’s 6 potential centre mids, Gosling can stay, he will be off in the summer anyway so he has to shape up or ship out this season. We can easily afford to let Bigi go.
I’d rather see Good go out on loan then hang around on the off chance that 2 people get injured/suspended at the same time. It is simple to put a recall clause in the deal, we have done that before.
Mbabu, Satko, Streete and Campbell should all be out on loan. Get them some decent experience and proper first team action.
Vuckic I’d rather see given a chance to. He, Sammi, Obertan and Ferg are past the stage where they should be loaned out. They should be forcing their way into the first team, or packing their bags for pastures new. For what it’s worth, Vuckic is the only one I’d be sad to see leave.
Spoof
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Comment #101LG
I realise what your saying, and I do agree, but what I was trying to imply is just how easy it is to inflate someone’s price when they are in the Championship, a perfect example is Dummett, putting personal opinions to one side he does now have a bit of a reputation for being a bright prospect, he certainly hasn’t done anything to suggest that his growing reputation is unjustified, I would say it is fair to say that he and Sam Byram are of equal standing, similar age and experience, both have looked good at the level at which they have played, Byram is valued at £6m, would any of us suggest that Dummett should be valued at £6m, to me that is plain madness, but if he had been in the Championship for the lasr 2 seasons that is what he would be valued at, Championship prices are crazy.
You mentioned that our 2 most qualified coaches are for the under 15 and 16’s, as I say, I am no expert on coaching, but does that mean a great deal, I just find it difficult to believe that good coaching at under 15 and 16 level to then have not such a good coach could destroy them as it seems to with us, could it be a case of the under 15 and 16 coaches are actually poor and are coaching the ability out of them and replacing their ability with physical presence, which is why we could be competetive at a younger level but when they develope their natural ability does not develope with them which is why we have so few decent English players, as I say, I am no expert but it is food for thought
ToonDarnSarf
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:35 PM
Comment #102TS
I think you’re totally wrong with the team v team argument there. That’s exactly where we are strong. Look at Spain where their TV money is divided in such a way that Barcelona and Real get most of it. The lower teams in other leagues are really quite poor whereas we usually have some decent enough teams with international players. Ok Palace, Hull and Cardiff are not the biggest clubs to get into the PL but they have then signed some half decent players. I still reckon they would come out on top against the bottom 3 in Italy, Spain, Germany or France.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:36 PM
Comment #103OhShola,
Alnwick should be on loan to. Again with a recall, or just get an emergency loan in if we do get an injury.
Transfer Sage
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:36 PM
Comment #104coahc
we have a great cricket side and great olympic athletes too..sure there are other’s im missng
for me the atittude come in football and rugby more than anything else
Transfer Sage
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:38 PM
Comment #105TDS
got to disagree…see much better football from teams in the spanish league, they’d definitely be ahead of english sides from 1-20th.
then look at teams in germany and italy, a good depth there too.
The only reason they look more unbalanced than us us because the teams at the top are so much better than our sides at the top.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:47 PM
Comment #106Spoof,
Of course poor coaching has a detrimental effect on players, no matter what age they get it! I think if you look at the size and shape of some of our young internationals you will realise it isn’t physicality. A couple of them could be blown over in a summers breeze. The coaches at Under 15/16 level are 2 of a group of just 16 globally who have this FIFA and FA ratified elite coaching qualification.
I’d also argue Byram has done a lot more than Dummett so far to justify any sort of reputation. Dummett had a good year last year in a SPL lacking in real competition and talent. Motherwell, who we thumped in our opening friendly were next best after Celtic. 36 first team games, 2 goals. (Excluding 10 appearances at conference level. Byram on the other hand has 53 first team appearances in a much more competitive league, and has managed to weigh in with 4 goals and 5 assists.
By no stretch of the imagination would I pay 6million, but I don’t think Dummett has done anything to justify the praise as of yet. Another case of people getting carried away – which, incidentally is another reason for prices being inflated. Every club rates their top youngsters as the next big thing, especially in the stands, but very few actually are.
Coach
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Comment #107Transfer Sage
We have great cyclists and rowers as well and they all have one thing in common – discipline. Do you think Jessica Ennis was in a club drinking the week before the Olympics? If you want to be in the Sky Cycling team you do exactly what Dave Brailsford tells you to do and if you don’t you are out. The same is true in rowing, our men’s eight trained for the World Championships at a level that 90% of footballers would run from.
Why do you think Andy Carroll is injured all the time, why did Andrew Flintoff have to quit cricket so early? The effects of lifestyle are well known but we have a relatively small number of British athletes who are willing to give up the pleasures they need to to reach the top. Football is by far the worst because of the amount of money talented youngsters are given at an early age. An extreme example is Nile Ranger.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Comment #108Coach,
OECD studies show their is very little difference in the quantity of alcohol drunk per teenager in the UK, Spain, Germany, Holland and France. The same goes for obesity. The same is also true for amount of daily exercise per child. I only have a hard copy of the findings for work, but will try and find a link for online at some point. The UK were not worst in any of these categories. I will stand by the fact that it is the structure of the game and the coaching that is at fault, rather than society as a whole.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM
Comment #109Not the fact, but my opinion, sorry. Also, that is not a slur on you as a coach. Merely an overview of the situation! 🙂
Spoof
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Comment #110LG
in fairness to Coach, I believe that his lifestyle comment was aimed at the effect that it has on some of those involved in sport rather than society as a whole, well that’s the way I read it anyway.
The_Toon
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:12 PM
Comment #111FUNNY HOW HE DID NOT MENTION CHELSEA And MAN CITY .. Terry, Ashley are the only regular starters and Hart and lescott .. £££££££££
toon kk
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:12 PM
Comment #112English players are brought up learning and playing a different style of play, the EPL is more direct where as many foreign players learn more tactical skills which a mixture becomes very useful for the making of a good team.
Any club will want quality at a better price.
ToonDarnSarf
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:13 PM
Comment #113TS
I think the football looks better because they get more space, but I don’t think the quality is as good. Look at the shorelines between the top teams and the bottom teams and look at the number of goals the top scores get in Spain.
thai-mag
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM
Comment #114COACH
Well said, you really hit the nail on the head there, Carroll been knackered since he injured himself falling off that bar stool a while ago, there’s so many other examples also.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM
Comment #115Spoof,
Maybe, but he does talk about it beyond sport and about large numbers of youth in the UK. I’m just pointing out that actually, we aren’t that different to the rest of Europe (in particular nations noted for their youth development), except Lithuania, boy do they put it away!!!!
Coach
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Comment #116Lilongwe
I don’t take it as a slur, it doesn’t surprise me that you choose an Economic Development report to suggest my facts are wrong. Perhaps we should get accountants to coach the England team.
Yes I’m joking.
Spoof
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Comment #117TDS
to back up your point about especially about goal scorers, I have just looked at the European golden boot winners, since it began in the 1967/68 season only one Englishman has ever won it, to make matters worse that was Kevin Phillips for bloody Sunderland, now that is a sickener lol
Coach
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:26 PM
Comment #118Spoof
Thanks for that, you’re right that I’m primarily talking about sportsmen and the effect of lifestyle on their performance although I did expand it beyond that a little. I have much less interest in society in general.
I’m old enough now to know how unpopular this view is, especially among the youth who believe they are unbreakable. That is until they break, then it’s someone else’s fault, this time it seems to be the coaches.
Lilongwe Geordie
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:30 PM
Comment #119Coach,
I’m not sure that you presented any facts in your argument, so how could I possibly use something to prove your ‘facts’ wrong? I’m fairly sure you gave an opinion, which I argued against using findings from a recognised international body to back up my point.
ToonDarnSarf
Sep 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM
Comment #120Spoof
How many played in the English league at the time?